Rachel Reeves has announced that winter fuel payments will only be paid to those on Pension Credit.nsion Credit

jan1956

Whitewavemark2

Yes already been fed into my budget😊

I agree

we should contribute? Thought we had contributed for years? If they stopped paying for illegals the black hole would soon be filled

That is what the labour government has already begun to do.

A group has already been shipped back to Vietnam, and you will see more and more of this happening as the Home Office gets its act in order, with the governments recruitment and training of the processing assessors.

Whitewavemark2

Yes already been fed into my budget😊

I agree

we should contribute? Thought we had contributed for years? If they stopped paying for illegals the black hole would soon be filled

Quite true. A lot of us are not 'comfortably off'. We are outside the limit for claiming any kind of state help, apart from the pension. Please don't assume that we're all in the same boat as we are certainly not!

annsixty

WW Peartree said it yesterday and I think someone else did in an earlier post.
Quite upsetting.
I will use my money as I think fit.

Here you are in case you are not sure what to say

🖕

But perhaps you are not as rude as posters who sit in judgement on others.

My friends would probably annoy them even more as they give all their spare cash including the WFA to asylum seeker charities😄😄

I think it will push some people to explore going on to other benefits. I have already looked up pension credit for my husband. And a greater uptake of attendance allowance.
In the end it might be counter productive. Also as we pay our heating bills over the year, that money was used for Christmas presents and food so there will be a drop in consumer spending.

I think it is Martin Lewis who has suggested that a fairer way would be to look at which council tax band you fall into and those within the lower bands be eligible.
How would this help? Surely smaller houses are cheaper to heat, so you'd still have people living in family houses they have paid for with their own money being unable to heat them. If they sell up and move away from their social networks to buy smaller houses they will be preventing first time buyers from getting on the ladder and pushing up the price of (say) two bedroom houses, not to mention becoming more vulnerable to depression and loneliness.

Declaring something not a problem because it isn't a problem to you personally is the very epitome of privilege. I'm not complaining, I'll manage to heat my home I have options to cut back elsewhere, but I can't casually write off those pensioners who will be severely affected as "there's always some who are caught by the cutoff point" I hope we have an exceptionally mild winter or else pensioner deaths attributable to cold homes could mount.

No, we don't know her Budget plans yet.

I watched Reeves giving the speech. She repeated said: If we cannot afford it, we cannot do it. But there are a lot of things that the goverment cannot afford else we wouldn’t have a national debt sitting at around 2.7 trillion.

Most media sources are saying the saving will be around 1.5 billion this year. It seems a paltry amount compared to the national debt and the 72 billion that was just sitting in the National Insurance Fund at 31 March 2023, a balance projected by HMRC to have risen even further by 31 March 2024. As I said above, technically that can’t be used to pay a non-contributory benefit but there are legislative ways around this.

I would argue with Reeves assertion that we cannot afford to retain the universal WFA - at least in the short term. To withdraw it just weeks away from when people in colder parts of the UK will need to switch on their heating seems an indiscriminate cruelty.

Lovetopaint037

They appear to have sorted the doctor’s strike. That is a relief.also promising increased nhs pay. Anger should be focussed on Hunt and the last useless lying government including Truss. They knew about the black hole and they knew it would force Labour to make some hard decisions.

Another poster has pointed out that the black hole is actually only 2% of government spending/borrowing.

More of a pin prick in reality

Lovetopaint037

They appear to have sorted the doctor’s strike. That is a relief.also promising increased nhs pay. Anger should be focussed on Hunt and the last useless lying government including Truss. They knew about the black hole and they knew it would force Labour to make some hard decisions.

Yes exactly that.

WW Peartree said it yesterday and I think someone else did in an earlier post.
Quite upsetting.
I will use my money as I think fit.

J52

Freya5
The economy was picking up before your shower came in, reducing the spending power of pensioners to help heat their homes or for food is downright despicable.

Excuse me! How do you know who I voted for?
Your peddling mis information!

Im not peddling anything. Just your inference as you wrote.
Apologies for that.

They appear to have sorted the doctor’s strike. That is a relief.also promising increased nhs pay. Anger should be focussed on Hunt and the last useless lying government including Truss. They knew about the black hole and they knew it would force Labour to make some hard decisions.

Ladyleftfieldlover

I honestly think Rachel Reeves is genuinely very annoyed at the state of the country’s finances. I don’t think you can say that Labour don’t like pensioners! I’m sorry that some GNs will suffer because of the decision on fuel allowance being limited to those on various benefits. Sadly there has to be a line drawn and there will always be people caught just in the wrong place. Don’t despise Labour yet.

Why not. Shadow Chancellor, she would have had access to most of documents pertaining to finances. This is political more than anything.

annsixty

What is wrong or smug about saying we give our WPA to charity each year?
I am not well off or rich but I can afford to heat my home for my own needs and wouldn’t know how to “give it back”.
What would happen to it then?
For many years, I have been getting this benefit for a long time as I am 87, I have given it ,equally , to Crisis at Christmas and the Salvation Army.
Am I supposed to feel guilty about this?

No of course not. Whoever says you are needs to give their head a Wobble.

You certainly owe no one an explanation.

Maybe a rude gesture but no more than that😄

What is wrong or smug about saying we give our WPA to charity each year?
I am not well off or rich but I can afford to heat my home for my own needs and wouldn’t know how to “give it back”.
What would happen to it then?
For many years, I have been getting this benefit for a long time as I am 87, I have given it ,equally , to Crisis at Christmas and the Salvation Army.
Am I supposed to feel guilty about this?

merion I take your point “held off for another year” but we. Don’t know her plans do we?

I suspect she is keen to get the most unpalatable choices on the table asap in order to get them away very early in this parliament.

What she has planned for the future with be a bit clearer in the autumn.

What we are talking about is the past.

You are welcome, Blinko.

Some more context.

In 2023/23, 126 million was paid out in £10 Christmas Bonuses. It’s a contributory benefit which is paid from NIC that that is collected into and then paid out of the National Insurance Fund (NIF). Winter Fuel Allowance is not a contributory benefit so doesn’t come out of the NIF.

MoneySavingExpert, Martin Lewis says there are around 800,000 people eligible for pension credit who aren’t getting it and urges people to claim, particularly as it’s a gateway to other benefits, for example, help with dentistry costs and glasses, council tax, broadband costs.

ONS says: At August 2023, there were 1.4 million people receiving Pension Credit representing a total of 1.6 million beneficiaries including partners.

On that basis, around a third of people eligible for Pension Credit and not claiming it.

Guaranteed Pension Credit will top up weekly income to £218.15 if you’re single or £332.95 if you’re married or in a civil partnership. If you reached State Pension Age before 6 April 2016, Savings Credit can add another £17.01 a week for a single person, £19.04 for couples.

In her speech yesterday, Reeves said:

I will work with my right honorouble friend the Work and Pensions Secretary to maximise the take-up of pension credit by bringing forward the administration of housing benefit and pension credit, repeatedly pushed back by the previous Government, and by working with older people’s charities and local authorities to raise awareness of pension credit and help identify households not claiming it.

The government Pension Credit calculator is easy to use:

pensioncreditcalculator.dwp.gov.uk/pension-credit-calculator-form.php?stage=1

There has to be a cut off point somewhere. As, I said, WFA isn’t a contributory benefit funded out of NIC. It has never made sense to pay a non-contributory benefit to everyone over pension age irrespective of income, from the poorest to billionaires.

For a single person born before 6 April 2016, getting guaranteed credit and savings credit, they will have a weekly income of £235.16 which is £12,228 per year. By comparision, someone working 40 hours a week at minimum wage will take home £12,732 after tax and NIC, so a difference of only £500 or £10 a week. Out of this, they will have to pay costs of living that a retired person may no longer have.

On the other hand, an older person is likely to be home more, may feel the cold more and so have higher heating costs.

What I’d really like to see now is for Ofgem to speed up its review of energy standing charges which would help those trying to, needing to economise. Energy standing charges make up around £300 of most people's yearly bills - what Martin Lewis calls a morally hazardous energy poll tax.

Ofgem has asked bill payers, suppliers, charities and consumer groups for their views on how an alternative system could work.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2023/11/energy-standing-charges-ofgem-review/

IMO, I think Reeves should have held off for another year to enable other systems to catch up:

• to make sure that those people, mostly women, whose pensions were being underpaid, were now being paid the correct amount c/f the 1.8 billion contingency in the NIF for this.

• allow other agencies time to do the work necessary to help those 800,000 people eligible for pension credit claim what they are entitled to.

* await the result of the Ofgem review on energy standing charges.

MaizieD

Richard Murphy has your backs

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/07/30/frozen-grannies-wont-forgive-reeves/

Blimey maizie hardly a laser focused economic assessment.

He is voicing an opinion just like us.

We may or may not agree with his assessment but to say that “he has our backs” doesn’t really cut the mustard!

Richard Murphy has your backs

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/07/30/frozen-grannies-wont-forgive-reeves/

I really don’t like this “I’m alright Jack” attitude that some here seem to have because they are comfortably off and so don’t mind losing it.Many are not comfortably off, but fall just above any thresholds for receiving benefits of any kind, so will find themselves really struggling. Then there are the people who, for whatever reason (pride, embarrassment, fear, etc), won’t apply even when entitled to.
I think it is Martin Lewis who has suggested that a fairer way would be to look at which council tax band you fall into and those within the lower bands be eligible.
We are desperately in the red, that’s true, but oh, how much waste there is - that needs tackling, but it seems that softer targets are easier. How often do we read of big debts being written off, or fraud investigations coming to naught, whereas if Jo or Josephine Bloggs got into debt they’d be chased hard.
Money can amazingly be raised to send abroad, though.

Good post Doodledog, as usual.

LizzieDrip

I have no problem with RR move to scrap the WFA, except for those on pension credit etc. Whilst I understand it will be unpopular with many, it is very unfair that people get it who really don’t need it.

In her autumn budget, I hope she tackles those with obscene wealth!

I think it is always very unfair to take from those who've saved (whether into a pension or into a bank) to give to those who haven't. People not on Pension Credit have usually paid both enough NI to get a full pension and into an occupational pension on top. Why should they then be told they 'don't really need' extra money, but those who haven't made provision will get it anyway?

Who can say what other people 'need'. That only works if there is a baseline standard of living and as soon as someone reaches it, regardless of any sacrifices they've made to do so they are deemed 'not really to need' anything extra.

I don't understand this attitude at all, whether it is applied to pensioners, children, parents or anyone. Means-testing strips people of incentives, dreams and hopes for a life above a baseline decided on by others.

I believe in universal benefits, payable to those who pay into the system (unless there is a reason why they are unable to). There should be a separate system for those who choose not to pay in, and that should be means tested (eg on property, savings and family income), as a civilised country can't have people unable to eat and people will always fall through the net.

Otherwise, child benefits, pensions etc should be paid to all contributors, and should not be cut or stopped if people make further provision for themselves to drag them down to the baseline level. Unemployment benefits should also be paid on an insurance basis - if you've paid in you get back (subject to proof of job seeking) and if you haven't then benefits should be means tested.

I have seen comments saying that people who have bought their homes should get no WFA but renters should. Why? Of course I realise that renters have more calls on their incomes, and I would support increases in housing benefits if a way could be found that didn't simply divert taxes to pay landlords' mortgages and pensions, but as the point of paying off a house when you are in work is that you can live in it free when the mortgage ends, why should people who have done so be penalised?

As far as the government is concerned, I agree that this is a baffling move, but that it should be seen in the context of the Autumn budget when we've seen that. I don't think that the government is 'coming for pensioners', but it needs to pay to save the NHS, get the extra teachers it has promised and do something about housing. We were told that difficult decisions would have to be made to rectify 14 years of corruption and cuts, and I guess this was one of them.

It might have been more positively received if it had been framed as cutting the allowance across the board, but simultaneously increasing Pension Credit. That would have the same impact, but would seem fairer to those who have paid into the system. Also, Pension Credit will be phased out when the new pension takes over, so whichever way it's described it will be a short-term measure anyway.

Really surprised that the first thing the government went for is the winter fuel allowance. This is an important benefit for people on a low income. The 'I'm alright jack' stance is not particularly helpful. Especially with the fuel increases looming. This is going to be a difficult winter for many elderly people.

The “clearing up the Tory mess” argument isn’t cutting as much ice as was hoped. That’s the crux of it.

I dislike the whole principle of governments introducing mean measures early on in the hope that voters will have forgotten in 5 years time. And this is a mean measure.

Cost of living increases have meant that the state pension doesn’t go as far as it did 5 years ago so more people are dependent on these extra payments, especially people living alone who are predominately women.

No reason to think that RR doesn’t care. She’s in a tight place but IMO was ill-advised to target the old so blatantly. Maybe withholding until age 80 would have been more acceptable if she was determined to do it.