Why do Asylum Seekers cross the channel on small boats

Chestnut - and your point is ?

The population of Norway, which, by the way, has an excellent record on immigration, is equivalent to London.
However, only a modest part of it's land mass is habitable. A great deal of it is too high, and impenetrable for services such as water, sewage, and power to reach.
Land is only part of the equation.

Rosie51 Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison. This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

Just to say, the UK population is not 58 million it's at least 67 million which is over 2.5 times more people than the whole of Australia.

London is about 9 million now and the whole of New Zealand is 5.1 million. So London has over 1.7 times more people than the whole of New Zealand.

Rosie51

Casdon

Yes, and I believe somebody also posted this on that thread:

‘An estimated 40% of Australia is considered uninhabitable. That's because it's the second driest continent. 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England.’
krcgtv.com › features › bey...

Australia is currently facing environmental challenges much greater than we are in the northern hemisphere.

Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison.
This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

The biggest difference between the UK and Australia Rosie51 is the infrastructure needed to enable people to live there. You can’t make a direct comparison and say it’s however many times bigger than the UK so it should take however many more migrants than the UK. It’s also already a country populated almost entirely by people who have migrated there from all over the world over the last 250 years.

LizzieDrip

Thanks DamasRose

Yes, it does feel like banging one’s head against a brick wall a lot of the time but … what can you do🤷‍♀️

You're so right. 🙁

LizzieDrip Then, in a later post you say “…please don't tell me we need more people to not provide for.” People coming here, legally, to work will be providing for themselves; indeed, contributing to the country’s economy via tax.
Sorry if that was confusing. I mean the country providing houses, schools, hospitals, GPs etc. for its citizens. Not the citizens providing for themselves with jobs. We can't provide those things for people already here, so we don't need even more people to 'not provide for' if you get my drift.

Casdon

Yes, and I believe somebody also posted this on that thread:

‘An estimated 40% of Australia is considered uninhabitable. That's because it's the second driest continent. 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England.’
krcgtv.com › features › bey...

Australia is currently facing environmental challenges much greater than we are in the northern hemisphere.

Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison.
This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

Thanks DamasRose

Yes, it does feel like banging one’s head against a brick wall a lot of the time but … what can you do🤷‍♀️

As others have said we have a similar system to other countries when allowing immigration. Nobody on this or any other discussion has said open the borders, allow free movement
The difference between the opposing groups seems straight forward. People seeking asylum are dismissed as “illegals” by some. Others, thankfully the majority see that families will pool their resources and do everything in their power to get to a safe European country
Many have colonial / empire links to the countries they aim for
It doesn’t matter though how often the facts are set out, the rhetoric and total disregard for other humans takes over

Mollygo

Chestnut

M0nica asked which are the first professions you suggest we restrict. Doctors? dentists? IT staff? to which I replied that I wasn't suggesting we restrict any particular professions. More important to choose those we want and refuse those we don't want surely?

That’s what they do in Australia, together with assessing any criminal background and certain health problems before you are allowed a visa.

Their system is not perfect.

Is anyone posting actually aware of our immigration system?

It is highly controlled, particularly with the additions the last government made, like the salary limit and restrictions on brining in dependents.

www.gov.uk/guidance/new-immigration-system-what-you-need-to-know

The number of people arriving by irregular means is small compared with those arriving by the regular channels. figures to March 2024, (discounting visitor visas) 1.5 million 'regular' visas, 38.5 thousand 'irregular' entrants.

The number of irregular arrivals are not sufficient to account for our problems with housing, health and education.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2024/summary-of-latest-statistics

M0nica if you read my post you'll see I said net migration was 685,000. I think this is why people get so frazzled, because they don't read posts properly. You have based a very long post on an error.

Chestnut

Whitewavemark2

It is indisputable that immigration helps grow an economy, encourages innovation and brings in foreign investment.

It is also indisputable that there isn’t a single economy in the world that has not thrived without immigration.

Fine, but don't you think 1.22 million new arrivals last year is enough? We had half a million leaving (who can blame them?) which makes net migration in 2023 of 685,000. Yet you keep wanting more as if it's never enough.

Chestnut The 1.22 million is GROSS migration. NET (those coming in less those returnig to their countries of origin) is 685,000, just over half that figure.

Many of those coming in are students, we have some of the best universities in the world, Oxford has just been classed the No 1 world university. These students bring huge sums of revenue into this country and the vast majority return home after they have completed their degrees.

2024 was an exceppionally high year for immigration and figures are falling this year.

I suggest in future before you brandish statistics you make sure you fully verify them.

The link to the statistics I quote are from the authorative Migration Observatory, Based at the Centre on Migration, Policy and Society (COMPAS) at the University of Oxford, the Migration Observatory provides impartial, independent, authoritative, evidence-based analysis of data on migration and migrants in the UK, to inform media, public and policy debates, and to generate high quality research on international migration and public policy issues. A quote from their site.

Remember Oxford is the best university in the world and the link is migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

But, on the other hand, I feel that you are wasting your time because some posters will simply not read or listen to factual statistical information which is provided on this thread.
What factual statistical information are you referring to DamaskRose that some posters haven't read?

Thatcher foresaw the chaos we are in now. She said “if the right honourable gentleman is suggesting that we ever get to a position where we cannot return illegal immigrants to their country of origin, then he is proposing international chaos”

I am also very calm by the way 🤣🤣🤣

Mollygo

Chestnut

M0nica asked which are the first professions you suggest we restrict. Doctors? dentists? IT staff? to which I replied that I wasn't suggesting we restrict any particular professions. More important to choose those we want and refuse those we don't want surely?

That’s what they do in Australia, together with assessing any criminal background and certain health problems before you are allowed a visa.

Their system is not perfect.

It is what we do in Britain as well.

Yes, and I believe somebody also posted this on that thread:

‘An estimated 40% of Australia is considered uninhabitable. That's because it's the second driest continent. 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England.’
krcgtv.com › features › bey...

Australia is currently facing environmental challenges much greater than we are in the northern hemisphere.

LizzieDrip

Chesnut I don’t follow the logic of your argument.

You say that you don’t want to restrict any professions from entering the UK - indeed you say it’s ‘a strange idea’.

You quote numbers of migrants, which relate to legal migrants, coming here to work and contribute to the country. Earlier you’ve said you’re fine with; indeed (as above) a ‘strange idea’ to restrict them.

Then, in a later post you say “…please don't tell me we need more people to not provide for.”

People coming here, legally, to work will be providing for themselves; indeed, contributing to the country’s economy via tax.

So, who is it you don’t want?

Some of the comments on this thread leave me speechless which is why I am indebted to Lizziedrip and others for their calmness in answering them. But, on the other hand, I feel that you are wasting your time because some posters will simply not read or listen to factual statistical information which is provided on this thread.
Thankyou anyway for trying.

Someone posted this a while back. It just shows the sheer size of Australia. We're in there somewhere.

I don’t know about Australia - I was led to believe that it was populated by people or felons from the Uk in the early years of settlement by non natives. And look where that led …..

Chestnut

M0nica asked which are the first professions you suggest we restrict. Doctors? dentists? IT staff? to which I replied that I wasn't suggesting we restrict any particular professions. More important to choose those we want and refuse those we don't want surely?

That’s what they do in Australia, together with assessing any criminal background and certain health problems before you are allowed a visa.

Their system is not perfect.

That reply was to Lizziedrip.

M0nica asked which are the first professions you suggest we restrict. Doctors? dentists? IT staff? to which I replied that I wasn't suggesting we restrict any particular professions. More important to choose those we want and refuse those we don't want surely?

Chestnut

^Immigration has clearly become a major issue with certain demographics - generally the older folk, and I do feel it needs addressing in order for the current climate to be addressed and the excuse for rioting stopped.^
How can you address immigration apart from stopping it? Or reducing to 10s of thousands as was promised years ago. I think many people are upset by what they see with their own eyes, places which have sadly gone downhill when the demographics change. For some people this translates into anger, and it only takes one event to trigger violence.

Meanwhile and unfortunately we have anti-immigration rhetoric being pushed on a daily basis. It is relentless and Reform and other individuals are responsible, for misinformation on an industrial scale and as we have seen incitement.
Well unless people are actually lying they are not doing anything wrong. If they are simply drawing people's attention to the truth then that is the right thing to do. I'm sure you would agree with that as it swings both ways.

I can assure you that because of the bit of my post that you failed to address even Reform would not stop immigration because of the reasons I have given, unless of course they are willing to see the U.K. economy contract at an alarming rate, which would mean their demise would occur pdq.

The truth is once again in the bit you failed to address.

No one is denying that people like yourself believe that immigration is an existential threat to the U.K.

But that doesn't mean you are right or that your belief is right for our economy

Chesnut I don’t follow the logic of your argument.

You say that you don’t want to restrict any professions from entering the UK - indeed you say it’s ‘a strange idea’.

You quote numbers of migrants, which relate to legal migrants, coming here to work and contribute to the country. Earlier you’ve said you’re fine with; indeed (as above) a ‘strange idea’ to restrict them.

Then, in a later post you say “…please don't tell me we need more people to not provide for.”

People coming here, legally, to work will be providing for themselves; indeed, contributing to the country’s economy via tax.

So, who is it you don’t want?

I agree Chestnut, it is the right thing to do.