These lengthy prison sentences for rioters

The TV production company really should be told off, Whitewave, here you are:
Email: [email protected]

What is happening is that you are getting the economic relationship muddled.

African slaves were commodities. No different to sugar, guns etc. they were bought and sold at auction and belong entirely to the purchaser to do with as they wished, from controlling their birth to their death.

The. Irish were indentured Labour. This formed a legal contract between their employers and the employed. Indentured Labour is where sn individual signs a contract to work for a company/firm. Indentured employment was unpleasant and entirely exploited by the employers, but it was NOT slave labour. The indentured individual was paid a wage, worked the length of time albeit miserable existence and was then free. The Caribbean has many indentured descendants including Asians and other Europeans.

The slave is never ever free. Indeed he is never treated as a human being merely a commodity.

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/12/irish-people-sent-to-the-caribbean-were-not-enslaved I never knew but a quick google reveals all.
Now back to winterwhite topic, I did think that education should be part of the sentencing for rioters but that’s always been argued and some prisoners do make use of education while in prison. I’ve been surprised and then not been surprised at the number revealed to already have a criminal record.

Perhaps you'd like to contact Moondance Productions and tell them to stop spreading misinformation?

Callistemon213

Perhaps because it has generally been established that these people were enslaved, that is why many believe it to be true.

The Redlegs – Ireland’s Sugar Slaves

moondance.tv/show/the-redlegs-ireland-sugar-slaves/#:~:text=The%20Redlegs%20is%20the%20untold,rich%20English%20planters%20in%20Barbados.

Moondance Productions is a television production company based in Dublin and London, specialising in factual, reality and documentary series.

Perhaps, but it isn’t correct.

Oh yes

I wonder by dropping your assertion that blacks enslaved whites.

You would be so kind as to expand on that with more information.

Perhaps because it has generally been established that these people were enslaved, that is why many believe it to be true.

The Redlegs – Ireland’s Sugar Slaves

moondance.tv/show/the-redlegs-ireland-sugar-slaves/#:~:text=The%20Redlegs%20is%20the%20untold,rich%20English%20planters%20in%20Barbados.

Moondance Productions is a television production company based in Dublin and London, specialising in factual, reality and documentary series.

Primrose53

Whitewavemark2

Primrose53

Doodledog

Callistemon213

I rather like him

So do I. Isn't he a professor of Black history? That's why his programmes tend to be about slavery etc. It's not exactly a crowded market, so his voice is heard more than others on the subject. I love his House Through Time series, too.

I liked his House Through Time too. He goes on and on about white people having slaves but never mentions the black people who captured white people and enslaved them.

As an example many white Irish people were captured and taken to Barbados where they were kept as slaves and the lowest of the low. A small community still exists to this day. They were called Red Legs as with their pale Irish skin they burned really badly. the singer Rihanna is a descendant.

You are re-writing history. - it is the primrose farage version of British history. Entirely incorrect with a tiny bit if truth attached. It is what populists do.

I really don’t have the time or inclination to say why.

Nothing to do with Farage and true!

You are always telling people not to spread misinformation and now you are inferring that what I posted is untrue. It absolutely is not!

I will just leave this link as I am on my way to hospital appt.

www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/irish-roots-were-there-irish-slaves-in-barbados-1.2337597

I hope you have the decency to apologise.

And did you check these “facts” against academic material?

No? - I thought not.

You little bit of truth is that indeed Irish emigrated to Barbados beginning during William and Mary”s reign. But that is where you “truthful facts” end. They were never slaves or considered the lowest of the low. Their economic relationship with their employers was entirely different.

They were indentured servants. A common practice during this time. Indeed many individuals in the West Indies, and indeed throughout Africa etc can trace back their ancestors to indentured labour.

They were never slaves. Indeed once their indentured contract ended they were free to go where they wished.

In this febrile time truth matters particularly where we are discussing race.

What I posted about Koko the gorilla is also true. About as relevant to a programme about gorillas in the wild as Irish slaves are to black history though.

No sympathy for these thugs, rioting simply because they thought they could. Returning them to the bosom of their family is the worst possible place for them, and I doubt if those who have families are responsible parents.

Whitewavemark2

Primrose53

Doodledog

Callistemon213

I rather like him

So do I. Isn't he a professor of Black history? That's why his programmes tend to be about slavery etc. It's not exactly a crowded market, so his voice is heard more than others on the subject. I love his House Through Time series, too.

I liked his House Through Time too. He goes on and on about white people having slaves but never mentions the black people who captured white people and enslaved them.

As an example many white Irish people were captured and taken to Barbados where they were kept as slaves and the lowest of the low. A small community still exists to this day. They were called Red Legs as with their pale Irish skin they burned really badly. the singer Rihanna is a descendant.

You are re-writing history. - it is the primrose farage version of British history. Entirely incorrect with a tiny bit if truth attached. It is what populists do.

I really don’t have the time or inclination to say why.

Nothing to do with Farage and true!

You are always telling people not to spread misinformation and now you are inferring that what I posted is untrue. It absolutely is not!

I will just leave this link as I am on my way to hospital appt.

www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/irish-roots-were-there-irish-slaves-in-barbados-1.2337597

I hope you have the decency to apologise.

I have some sympathy for their families, but the rioters and looters should have thought about the consequences beforehand.
All criminals cause consequences for those left behind when they are imprisoned.
It is no excuse for not imposing a custodial sentence. However, I agree that there should be more educational opportunities for those imprisoned.

Primrose53

Whitewavemark2

David Olusoga wrote today that the rioters are simply racists. There is zero excuse for what they did.

Am inclined to agree.

Everybody in the world is racist according to him.

I do wonder how his mum feels because she is white and brought him up as a single mum yet she seems to have been written out of his life story.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

I support the swift and serious sentencing of the rioters. The mess our CJS is in can’t be used as an excuse not to come down hard with speed

It’s good to see the ignorance of the reality and legacy if empire and slavery, shown repeatedly by ‘some posters’ challenged here.

Ziplok

I’m afraid they have no sympathy from me - they knew full well what they were doing, a lot of them have previous, and they have to face the consequence of their actions whether they have previous or not. I really believe that most of them thought they would get a slap on the wrist, if apprehended at all. I’m sick and tired of this frequently being the case, and happy that this hasn’t been the case this time. They have caused damage, fear and cost many people their livelihood over the period of violence as they’ve had to shut up shop.
So, some have families, and there are concerns that they will suffer as a result, but actually, these miscreants should have thought of that before they went on the rampage, inflicting terror on innocent people. I’m sorry for their relatives, but not for them.

Yes.

People seem to think that DO should know about everything, and manage to cram in every example of every event into a 3minute comment, a 1000 word article or an hour on TV. I’m sure he’s very flattered by these opinions but it’s easy to understand that he can’t.

I once saw David Attenborough talking about gorillas in the wild, and he didn’t once mention Koko (the trained gorilla who could use sign language). I list all respect for him after that. National Treasure indeed 🙄.

Freya5

Whitewavemark2

David Olusoga wrote today that the rioters are simply racists. There is zero excuse for what they did.

Am inclined to agree.

Very easy for the racist card to be played.
Underlying causes don't matter do they,?? Thuggery is abominable from whoever it comes from and is no excuse.
What does he say about the lady arrested on the pavement for simply being afraid of being followed home, she a racist too.
What about the Islamists slashing the tyres of SKY reporter, threatening her on the streets, they racist too, guess not,no arrests either. Who cares what celebrities say, I don't.

It’s not Top Trumps Freya5. One act of thuggery by one group doesn’t cancel out another - and even you would admit that after 800 odd arrests there were a lot more than one act of violence from racists than from anybody else.

Whataboutery.

We can all play that game, but it gets us absolutely nowhere.

How do you know they were islamists? Did they have the word tattooed on their forehead, or is it your racist rhetoric?

Whitewavemark2

David Olusoga wrote today that the rioters are simply racists. There is zero excuse for what they did.

Am inclined to agree.

Very easy for the racist card to be played.
Underlying causes don't matter do they,?? Thuggery is abominable from whoever it comes from and is no excuse.
What does he say about the lady arrested on the pavement for simply being afraid of being followed home, she a racist too.
What about the Islamists slashing the tyres of SKY reporter, threatening her on the streets, they racist too, guess not,no arrests either. Who cares what celebrities say, I don't.

The judiciary sentences within strict guidelines. Any sentence may be challenged if the guidelines are not followed.

I know, wwm. And ignores the fact that DO’s subject is black history, as is the topic of many of the programmes he presents.

nanna8

I think they would be better in prison uniforms cleaning streets and doing community service but I suppose that would be too hard to supervise. Easier to lock them up and breed discontent.

Worked last time. The so called discontent never manifested itself again.

These riots are entirely different to the last ones.

Primrose53

Doodledog

Callistemon213

I rather like him

So do I. Isn't he a professor of Black history? That's why his programmes tend to be about slavery etc. It's not exactly a crowded market, so his voice is heard more than others on the subject. I love his House Through Time series, too.

I liked his House Through Time too. He goes on and on about white people having slaves but never mentions the black people who captured white people and enslaved them.

As an example many white Irish people were captured and taken to Barbados where they were kept as slaves and the lowest of the low. A small community still exists to this day. They were called Red Legs as with their pale Irish skin they burned really badly. the singer Rihanna is a descendant.

You are re-writing history. - it is the primrose farage version of British history. Entirely incorrect with a tiny bit if truth attached. It is what populists do.

I really don’t have the time or inclination to say why.