These lengthy prison sentences for rioters

Mollygo

Many schools have a “values” curriculum, where respect, compassion, trust, politeness and many other values are taught, exemplified and practised.
Useful if they see it evidenced at home as well.
“Do as you would be done by” is replaced at the moment by “Be done by as you did” which some of us will remember from our childhood.

I've taught in many secondary schools and have not seen a "values curriculum" being taught explicity, nor do the values in some schools indicate that is being taught implicitly.

Mollygo

Dickens
But it doesn't deal with the underlying problem, which is ignorance and deprivation. And nothing is being, or has been, done about that.

That’s true, possibly because no one can think of a viable solution.

Not all the rioters were uneducated, but the number of previous convictions for violence makes it seem as if they were just looking for something to do to express their general dissatisfaction.

More worrying is the fact that he was so consumed by his anger that even knowing his behaviour was being filmed didn’t stop him. In that state of “don’t care”, what would work to stop him?

But where to start?

Feeling aggrieved that however hard you work, that is, if you can get a job, you’re never going to get anywhere is soul destroying.

Away from the riots, people being interviewed on the news about the impossibility of saving for a deposit whilst rental prices soar, show how desperate things are getting.
If you haven’t even got the money to rent a decent place . . .

So what did the murder of three little girls have to do with that?

And how does destroying/damaging police cars, a library, mosques and looting from shops help all that? People have damaged their own communities.

Freya5

Wyllow3

I agree with Dickens

"More worrying are the high-profile politicians and others who subtly - and not always so subtly - fan the the flames of their fury. Do they, these politicians, etc, even care, one jot, about the people they are egging on, egging on to suit their own agenda".

I think a good start would be them joining in to seek solutions instead of inflaming people further.

These communities have been in decline for a very long time, since the end of the big industries. And it's right to point out - to say jobs in McDonalds or packing boxes in warehouses - aren't satisfying, but finding an answer to that one very difficult.

Truth about immigration is not liked on this thread.

Which truth do you mean?

Wyllow3

I agree with Dickens

"More worrying are the high-profile politicians and others who subtly - and not always so subtly - fan the the flames of their fury. Do they, these politicians, etc, even care, one jot, about the people they are egging on, egging on to suit their own agenda".

I think a good start would be them joining in to seek solutions instead of inflaming people further.

These communities have been in decline for a very long time, since the end of the big industries. And it's right to point out - to say jobs in McDonalds or packing boxes in warehouses - aren't satisfying, but finding an answer to that one very difficult.

Truth about immigration is not liked on this thread.

I agree with Dickens

"More worrying are the high-profile politicians and others who subtly - and not always so subtly - fan the the flames of their fury. Do they, these politicians, etc, even care, one jot, about the people they are egging on, egging on to suit their own agenda".

I think a good start would be them joining in to seek solutions instead of inflaming people further.

These communities have been in decline for a very long time, since the end of the big industries. And it's right to point out - to say jobs in McDonalds or packing boxes in warehouses - aren't satisfying, but finding an answer to that one very difficult.

Dickens
But it doesn't deal with the underlying problem, which is ignorance and deprivation. And nothing is being, or has been, done about that.

That’s true, possibly because no one can think of a viable solution.

Not all the rioters were uneducated, but the number of previous convictions for violence makes it seem as if they were just looking for something to do to express their general dissatisfaction.

More worrying is the fact that he was so consumed by his anger that even knowing his behaviour was being filmed didn’t stop him. In that state of “don’t care”, what would work to stop him?

But where to start?

Feeling aggrieved that however hard you work, that is, if you can get a job, you’re never going to get anywhere is soul destroying.

Away from the riots, people being interviewed on the news about the impossibility of saving for a deposit whilst rental prices soar, show how desperate things are getting.
If you haven’t even got the money to rent a decent place . . .

LovesBach

The photos and footage of what happened is sickening - violent, raving thugs who would have caused serious injury or death if they had succeeded. There is a shot of a man crashing a lump of concrete into a police car window, repeatedly. The PC feared for his life - they deserve every day of their sentences. Let us hope that there is some rehabilitation, and more to the point, some remorse.

There is a shot of a man crashing a lump of concrete into a police car window, repeatedly. The PC feared for his life...

The veneer of civilisation is very thin on these types of individuals isn't it.

To see the footage of some of them draped in the St George's flag and shouting "Ing-a-land" as if they are some kind of ancient warrior - their faces contorted into ugliness with rage and hate, makes my blood run cold.

More worrying are the high-profile politicians and others who subtly - and not always so subtly - fan the the flames of their fury. Do they, these politicians, etc, even care, one jot, about the people they are egging on, egging on to suit their own agenda.

If we are going to be censoring what people write on social media sites - why aren't these individuals - like Farage and Anderson - also being held to account?

Sure, they are not suggesting - like that unfortunate woman - mosques are burnt down with all the adults inside. No, they're far more astute and clever for that kind of rhetoric. Clever and manipulative, because they know what they are doing - they are in simple terms, rabble-rousing.

Frankly, I find it terrifying. If that thug with a lump of concrete attacking a police car with officers inside, is so tanked up with anger and rage that he has no care whether he injures or kills one of them - how is a prison sentence going to quell his anger? I doubt it was new-found - he has probably had a lifetime of imbibing all the divisive propaganda, from politicians, the media, and social media platforms. Will he come out of prison a 'changed' man, or will his hate and rage just fester?

I think it's going to take much more than prison sentences to deal effectively with this insurrection. It would appear that quite a few of those sentenced have previous convictions for similar offences - violent offences.

At the risk of being challenged for saying so - I believe we have a whole 'under' class of people who are deprived, educationally, economically and culturally; who are basically totally ignored - until something like these riots surfaces. Then they are 'dealt' with - a prison sentence which is supposed to make them and those like them think twice about taking part in any future riots.

But it doesn't deal with the underlying problem, which is ignorance and deprivation. And nothing is being, or has been, done about that.

The photos and footage of what happened is sickening - violent, raving thugs who would have caused serious injury or death if they had succeeded. There is a shot of a man crashing a lump of concrete into a police car window, repeatedly. The PC feared for his life - they deserve every day of their sentences. Let us hope that there is some rehabilitation, and more to the point, some remorse.

Many schools have a “values” curriculum, where respect, compassion, trust, politeness and many other values are taught, exemplified and practised.
Useful if they see it evidenced at home as well.
“Do as you would be done by” is replaced at the moment by “Be done by as you did” which some of us will remember from our childhood.

Iam64

I agree with the many benefits of the uniform cadet groups.
I’m not sure about removing children fro. The national curriculum or school. We need to expand the curriculum so it enables more focus on practical

I’m not suggesting removing them from school, just offering an alternative curriculum in school.

Spot on Dickens.

lemsip

and manners too, especially 'do as you would be done by' one!

Good idea, teaching manners and how to cope in society.👍🏻

Wyllow3

And so it leads to fights for limited resources, blaming other groups. I don't think the current government wants this, but it seems to me that the media thrives on it. Interviews on many news stations deliberately pit groups against each other instead of solution-seeking.

... but it seems to me that the media thrives on it.

When you consider the ownership of some of our media, it's hardly surprising.

Viscount Rothermere controls the corporate parent of of the Daily Mail, and Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation, The Sun.

Would these two really want a united, politically savvy electorate deciding on the future of Britain - an equitable and fairer society for all, with well-funded public services?

What's in it for them - apart from losing some of their wealth and power? How would they benefit from public spending?

They need to maintain the status-quo, and the only way to do that is to present the public with scapegoats so we can fight among ourselves whilst they carry on with business as usual.

Iam64

Yes to GrannyGravy’s suggestion on teaching politics - can we add teaching our history, also from a non biased perspective

There is no non-biased perspective. As soon as you remove one ‘bias’ you are allowing another to take its place.
Look at the bias in favour of female safe spaces then the viewpoint of those who feel females do not need spaces free from males.
In a simplistic form
We learned (years ago) about the benefits if machines which made producing fabrics easier, but which needed people to run them.
Then about the more sophisticated machines which needed fewer people necessary.
We looked at the benefits to consumers and owners of the newer machines, and the impact on those who lost employment as a result of them.

and manners too, especially 'do as you would be done by' one!

Yes to GrannyGravy’s suggestion on teaching politics - can we add teaching our history, also from a non biased perspective

I also think 'keyboard warriors' are isolated too. I have been isolated at times through being a parent carer and the internet/social media is an easy way to feel less isolated. People listen to you, sympathise, emphasise, offer solutions but there are also the negative points of that, especially for people who may be vulnerable

I know this is going off topic somewhat but working with your hands is good for the soul too. Gardening, cooking, art, making furniture, upholstery, carpentry, sewing...this list is endless. All good to keep you busy and content with whatever is your thing. Messing about with cars etc. It gives people a focus. Yes technology is great but it isn't when you get obsessed with something indoors and cant focus your mind on other things, which has just reminded me of adult hikikomori which has been caused by prolonged social isolation (gaming is attributed as one cause)

I agree about night schools (And Adult Education in general), and about the OU, which is very expensive these days.

I am less convinced that teaching trade skills is pointless though, as a basic ability to do DIY and repair things is useful for everyone, whether you use those skills at work or not.

It's a huge generalisation I know, but older generations mended and did house repairs themselves far more than younger ones do. When our children were little Mr Dog kept a washing machine limping on for years by replacing bits that wore out, but our son wouldn't know where to start. My two can both cook and sew buttons on, but the 'trade' skills weren't taught at school, and they weren't interested in picking them up at home. To be fair, they are great with fixing the wifi and what they jokingly refer to as 'a little light IT'

I've said this before, but IMO belittling Media Studies is wrong. So much of our opinions come from the media, and it is more important than ever that people understand how to interpret and discriminate between sources. I don't think it always suits governments to have a media-savvy population, but I think it is vital, and will get even more so as AI develops further.

Interpreting media sources is taught now.
We still teach about recognising bias, sources and differentiating between fact and opinion.
I agree about numeracy teaching being
much more practical and applied than it currently is.
Everyone will have their own opinions of how that should look. It’s been discussed on GN before.

GrannyGravy13

What is needed is for Politics to be taught effectively and from an unbiased perspective.

Knowing how your country is governed from Parish Councils to Westminster Palace, being taught that voting gives you a voice. Being aware that it is possible to contact councillors, MP’s etc, would all be beneficial.

I hazard a guess that those who rioted along with the keyboard warriors are disenfranchised from politics, with no sense of community cohesion.

Education is the key to a life well lived.

I couldn't agree more. Many years ago, something called British Constitution was taught in a school where I worked as part of PSHE. As part of the same programme, we also taught pupils about interpreting media sources (this was before the internet and even more needed now). We taught about recognising bias, sources and differentiating between fact and opinion.

I'm a little cynical about teaching young teenagers trade skills because nobody knows what trade skills will be needed over their working lives. They will still be in the workplace in 50 or 60 years and who could have predicted 50 or 60 years ago what skills are needed now? Part of the problem with areas which have been "left behind" is that the trades of 50 years ago have gone, but for whatever reason people haven't adapted to the new jobs.

IMO young people need better literacy and numeracy skills to cope with future changes. What does need to change is the kind of literacy and numeracy taught. We all rely on the internet, so reading skills have never been so important. Children should be taught how to recognise scams and conspiracists. Numeracy could be much more practical and applied than it currently is.

I'd also like to see an expansion of adult education at a minimal cost. The Victorians had the right idea with their night schools, which continued until the end of the 20th century. I'd also like to see the OU return to to its roots as a free (or very affordable) route into higher education.

What is needed is for Politics to be taught effectively and from an unbiased perspective.

Knowing how your country is governed from Parish Councils to Westminster Palace, being taught that voting gives you a voice. Being aware that it is possible to contact councillors, MP’s etc, would all be beneficial.

I hazard a guess that those who rioted along with the keyboard warriors are disenfranchised from politics, with no sense of community cohesion.

Education is the key to a life well lived.

Add in trades skills, life skills, and more relevant qualifications.

Yes-like the woodwork and metalwork and technical drawing that my Grammar school offered all those years ago, but with a more focused outcome.
To most of us, they were just subjects that got you out of the usual lessons, not something to do for life.
Children in KS2 learn about electrical circuits, (using batteries only) and use their knowledge in DT, making reading lights etc, but they don’t see that as a life skill.

Working out a whole curriculum for that would take some time, and would you only offer it to certain children?

I agree with the many benefits of the uniform cadet groups.
I’m not sure about removing children fro. The national curriculum or school. We need to expand the curriculum so it enables more focus on practical

Mollygo

Quokka
At KS3 perhaps where instead of following the national curriculum and teacher led, something more in the line of a Cadet Corps? Run by professional soldiers? Police? Professional tradesmen?
Sounds a good idea, especially if it was a compulsory part of the curriculum. I know it would be difficult to fit in time wise, but it would give students a taste of discipline, and experiences that might be useful for them.
My KS3 DGD is a Navy cadet, but she had to compete for a place in that group, and they meet out of school hours. You can’t make out of school hours compulsory.

So you, like myself, have experienced the benefits of the various Cadet Corps eg Air Cadets, Army, Navy, Police?

Voluntary, yes, but highly competitive. My idea was taking certain kids, and taking them off curriculum and instead offering this as an alternative education full time in school.
Add in trades skills, life skills, and more relevant qualifications.

Yes, would mean bringing professionals other than teachers into schools, would need proper funding and organising, but could well save more than just money in the long term.