These lengthy prison sentences for rioters

It’s not uncommon for a prison sentence for a first offence if it’s violence, with video of the offence there is no defence, violent rioting is even worse,

OldFrill

nanna8

Wouldn’t it be a help if they at least received some sort of counselling in prison? If you have a skilful counsellor it can be very effective. Certainly better than just locking them up for a couple of years and letting them out with nothing. It’s a no brainer, really.

So long as they wait the same amount of time as everyone else who is waiting for counselling, in which case most would be out

Yes, I agree.

It's always difficult to prioritise shared resources without encouraging people to access them via bad behaviour. What would those who complain about 'two tier' society have to say about that?

nanna8

Wouldn’t it be a help if they at least received some sort of counselling in prison? If you have a skilful counsellor it can be very effective. Certainly better than just locking them up for a couple of years and letting them out with nothing. It’s a no brainer, really.

So long as they wait the same amount of time as everyone else who is waiting for counselling, in which case most would be out

Wouldn’t it be a help if they at least received some sort of counselling in prison? If you have a skilful counsellor it can be very effective. Certainly better than just locking them up for a couple of years and letting them out with nothing. It’s a no brainer, really.

nanaK54

Quokka

nanna8

That is what I would worry about. Many will come out of jail full of resentment and hatred of the government. I doubt many will change their views if all they get is a custodial sentence with no counselling or discussion. That is too hard for the authorities to work out,though. .

They probably will not change their views but they may well change their behaviour and think twice about taking part in mob violence.

Very well said Quokka
Hopefully their sentences will deter others too

nanna8 - I’m confident Starmer fully understands your point about custodial sentences. He’s also facing an over crowded prison population alongside the devastation of the Probation Service. In addition drug/alcohol/mental health services demolished by the previous governments nonsense austerity programme.
We have sent far too many people to prison and destroyed or failed to develop alternatives to custody. That’s the situation the government inherited in July so there’s a lot of work to do.
Despite pressure on Courts and prisons, I’m relieved the rioters are being dealt with quickly and severely. Many of them have criminal records for relevant offences

Thank you nanaK

Quokka

nanna8

That is what I would worry about. Many will come out of jail full of resentment and hatred of the government. I doubt many will change their views if all they get is a custodial sentence with no counselling or discussion. That is too hard for the authorities to work out,though. .

They probably will not change their views but they may well change their behaviour and think twice about taking part in mob violence.

Very well said Quokka
Hopefully their sentences will deter others too

nanna8

That is what I would worry about. Many will come out of jail full of resentment and hatred of the government. I doubt many will change their views if all they get is a custodial sentence with no counselling or discussion. That is too hard for the authorities to work out,though. .

They probably will not change their views but they may well change their behaviour and think twice about taking part in mob violence.

Mollygo

nanna8

Funny- I always get searched at airports, every single time. Funny- I very often get asked where I come from.
I often wonder why ( seriously !) I detest airports and that is one of the reasons. I never thought it was to do with my colour but maybe it is.

I get searched at airports, though not
every time., but at least I don’t have to worry about whether it’s my colour.
A student friend (of colour) once said that one of the worst things was she never knew how her greeting would be received when speaking to someone new.

Very true.

"was she never knew how her greeting would be received when speaking to someone new".

That reminds me of a simple event at the supermarket. A lady with a head scarf was in with a couple of boys, and they were happy and chatty and I thought, "oh, I hope that lasts for them, they won't grow up in fear".

Most airports I go to are Asian or South Pacific ones. White people are a minority so maybe that is why we get searched ! I never thought of that but it could well be. Can’t trust the white devils.

nanna8

Funny- I always get searched at airports, every single time. Funny- I very often get asked where I come from.
I often wonder why ( seriously !) I detest airports and that is one of the reasons. I never thought it was to do with my colour but maybe it is.

I get searched at airports, though not
every time., but at least I don’t have to worry about whether it’s my colour.
A student friend (of colour) once said that one of the worst things was she never knew how her greeting would be received when speaking to someone new.

That is what I would worry about. Many will come out of jail full of resentment and hatred of the government. I doubt many will change their views if all they get is a custodial sentence with no counselling or discussion. That is too hard for the authorities to work out,though. .

Agree Grantanow. Maybe recent events will convince the electorate of the importance of prisons that do equip prisoners for life after release, otherwise the eventually released rioters will emerge from prison with worse criminal tendencies than they had when they went in.

Iam64

Grantanow ~ ithe impact of the problems facing the CjS is no longer being hidden. This government is already talking about the need to improve it and not just by building some new jails to replace the Victorian prisons, no longer fit for purpose
Appointing James Timpson was a step in the right direction

It would be impossible to hide the problem and Timpson is a step in the right direction. Building more prisons isn't the answer imho but the cost of improving the existing estate, increasing staffing to ensure education and rehab as well as security and a competent and well-staffed probation service isn't going to come cheap. I doubt Labour will ultimately prioritise that over the NHS, etc., because there are no or few votes in it.

lemsip

wether it does them good or not is neither here nor there, It's to make others think twice if there is a next time and good job too

👍👍
A deterrent is what is needed as well as punishment.
And for those miscreants who think they shouldn’t have been locked up when others weren’t, they only have themselves to blame. As I say to the children in school when they say “He did it too!”
“You are the one I saw doing it!” Shoes can’t

I believe in the old saying if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.
I think our justice system needs changing for people to serve the whole sentence in prison not shortened for good behaviour, time should be added for bad behaviour, and I believe a life sentence should be just that until the day they die.
And I wouldn’t hesitate to give a lethal injection to someone who has hurt children, we need to build more prisons not let them out early to make room
Rant over 😬

Grantanow ~ ithe impact of the problems facing the CjS is no longer being hidden. This government is already talking about the need to improve it and not just by building some new jails to replace the Victorian prisons, no longer fit for purpose
Appointing James Timpson was a step in the right direction

Whitewavemark2

What is happening is that you are getting the economic relationship muddled.

African slaves were commodities. No different to sugar, guns etc. they were bought and sold at auction and belong entirely to the purchaser to do with as they wished, from controlling their birth to their death.

The. Irish were indentured Labour. This formed a legal contract between their employers and the employed. Indentured Labour is where sn individual signs a contract to work for a company/firm. Indentured employment was unpleasant and entirely exploited by the employers, but it was NOT slave labour. The indentured individual was paid a wage, worked the length of time albeit miserable existence and was then free. The Caribbean has many indentured descendants including Asians and other Europeans.

The slave is never ever free. Indeed he is never treated as a human being merely a commodity.

This!

It will take generations for education to get rid of racism especially as some politicians and 'celebrities' stir it up.

I think prison sentences for rioting men and women are justified and certainly for acts of violence and attempted arson.

But our prison system needs serious reform to reduce recidivism and that will cost big money. The problem is there are no votes in prison reform compared with other forms of public expenditure.

MayBee70

Babs03

My husband is a man of colour as of course are my children. As a white woman I had never experienced how it feels to be on the receiving end of racism, now I do and so can list some of the realities for people of colour living in predominantly white countries.
1. You will need to have ‘that conversation’ with your kids. Heartbreaking but necessary.
2. More often than not you will be searched at airports etc.
3. People will insist upon asking where you come from, even if you were born here.
4. Sometimes some rogue racist will hurl abuse and you will have to just walk away and hope he/she doesn’t try to attack you.
5. At interviews and when you get a job you will have to try harder in order to succeed.
6. If you have a house, nice car, etc., some people will question how you got all this.
7. Some people will make false assumptions, that you are culturally backward, treat women badly, are money grabbing/criminally minded.

This is as much as I can think of off the cuff.

4. Sometimes some rogue racist will hurl abuse and you will have to just walk away and hope he/she doesn’t try to attack you
Which is what happened to someone I know twice last week

Just posting to thank Babs03 for the list.

Funny- I always get searched at airports, every single time. Funny- I very often get asked where I come from.
I often wonder why ( seriously !) I detest airports and that is one of the reasons. I never thought it was to do with my colour but maybe it is.

Sparklefizz

Whitewavemark2

I said that DO seems to have written out his mother.....

You are saying he has not. I am happy to be corrected, but will not accept your rude and arrogant and inflammatory comment accusing me of being a liar. How dare you? I am not a liar.

There can only be one or two explanations for your post maintaining that DO had written his mother out of his life.

The first that you had read this incorrect information and repeated it in your post. In which case I would be glad to read it and apologise.

The second is that you simply made a guess at DO’s attitude towards his mother. Now the question is why would you do that? Was it to make mischief, or inflame an already inflamed thread on race, or simply to lie in the assumption that no one would question the veracity of your post?

Whitewavemark2

I said that DO seems to have written out his mother.....

You are saying he has not. I am happy to be corrected, but will not accept your rude and arrogant and inflammatory comment accusing me of being a liar. How dare you? I am not a liar.

Freya5 - your post is a personal insult to Whitewave so seems to break guidelines
There’s also some projection going on here. You’re accusing another poster of always being right ……

Primrose, Freya, please refrain from calling posters " arrogant".