Keyboard warriors - will the jail sentences deter others?

Restorative justice probably hasn’t been tried previously for social media cases I’d guess Doodledog, so a whole programme would need to be worked up if it was decided to go down that route? I’m coming to the conclusion that in the particular circumstances we have currently, the judges haven’t been left with much other option than imprisoning people.

Casdon

maddyone

Galaxy

The thing about re education is that those wanting to educate are usually wrong on just about everything.
I dont want to think like the racists but I also under no circumstances want to think like the re educators.

I agree with you Galaxy. The idea of re education is horrible. It reminds me of what happens in China, and what happened in Cambodia. No! No! No!

Could people undertake community service sentences without a degree of re-education being involved though?
I’m getting more confused rather than less.

There's a difference between restorative justice and being lectured for hours on the error of your ways, though, which was suggested upthread.

I'm not sure that bringing criminals and victims will always be the best idea, either. Sometimes it might, but there will always be those who love the idea of seeing the trauma they've caused others. It could make things better, rather than worse, and I suspect that is particularly the case where sexual offences are concerned.

growstuff

The woman who sent the message about mosques lives in a village in East Cheshire, which has a very low percentage of ethnic minority residents. She's possibly never seen a mosque or spoken to a Muslim in her life. The reason I suggested she should be forced to meet Muslims face-to-face was because a) she might realise they are just normal people b) she might realise that saying things to a person's face isn't the same as posting inflammatory messages online.

I agree, that's what I see as educative.

The woman who sent the message about mosques lives in a village in East Cheshire, which has a very low percentage of ethnic minority residents. She's possibly never seen a mosque or spoken to a Muslim in her life. The reason I suggested she should be forced to meet Muslims face-to-face was because a) she might realise they are just normal people b) she might realise that saying things to a person's face isn't the same as posting inflammatory messages online.

Casdon

maddyone

Galaxy

The thing about re education is that those wanting to educate are usually wrong on just about everything.
I dont want to think like the racists but I also under no circumstances want to think like the re educators.

I agree with you Galaxy. The idea of re education is horrible. It reminds me of what happens in China, and what happened in Cambodia. No! No! No!

Could people undertake community service sentences without a degree of re-education being involved though?
I’m getting more confused rather than less.

I suppose it depends what you mean by re-education. I agree that giving racists a pep talk about diversity wouldn't do much good, but with the woman inciting people to burn down mosques, maybe she could be a cleaner (or something) on a burns unit and see for herself the effects of what she was encouraging people to do. She might "re-educate" herself.

Galaxy

The thing about re education is that those wanting to educate are usually wrong on just about everything.
I dont want to think like the racists but I also under no circumstances want to think like the re educators.

I'm another inclined to agree with Galaxy's comment, re-education just smacks of draconian regimes, I'm not sure this government supports free speech (not hate speech) given that they've halted that in universities.

Casting my mind back to The Prevent programme, wasn't the general consensus it didn't really work and the raison d'etre of those attending was to dupe those instructing that they'd turned a corner, culminating in one such attendee of the programme running amok with a knife and killing several people.

maddyone

Galaxy

The thing about re education is that those wanting to educate are usually wrong on just about everything.
I dont want to think like the racists but I also under no circumstances want to think like the re educators.

I agree with you Galaxy. The idea of re education is horrible. It reminds me of what happens in China, and what happened in Cambodia. No! No! No!

Could people undertake community service sentences without a degree of re-education being involved though?
I’m getting more confused rather than less.

Long term "keyboard warriors" who persistently spread hatred and incitement to violence should get custodial sentences imo.

They are every bit as dangerous as some of those actually committing violent acts. It's steadily turning communities and people against each other.

I was so glad to see when communities stood together to clear up the damage post riot.

Any efforts as in positive initiatives that help people understand each other better. might help counter the online hatred.

Galaxy

The thing about re education is that those wanting to educate are usually wrong on just about everything.
I dont want to think like the racists but I also under no circumstances want to think like the re educators.

I agree with you Galaxy. The idea of re education is horrible. It reminds me of what happens in China, and what happened in Cambodia. No! No! No!

Dinahmo

The people who use SM to spread their hatred are anonymous. Many people who write appalling comments would not say those things face to face. Therefore I'm wondering whether there could be some form of identification that they must wear so that the rest of us knew who they were.

Wrist or ankle bracelets could be covered up but maybe henna on their hands? I don't think that henna washes off quickly. I remember when I had my hair hennaed many years ago I had to grow it out.

Such ID could also be used on those who were rioting last week. It would be cheaper than keeping them in prison.

This idea is not good. It reminds me of putting yellow stars on Jewish people in WW2. I know it’s not the same, but that was what immediately came to mind. No, I could never condone that!

There were thousands of people there but not all were actively involved; many were watching to see the outcome. Seeing the attacks the police were subjected to I think they did amazingly well to arrest 700.
The cases are being heard quickly and sentencing is swift and I think it will give many people pause for thought before participating should another disturbance erupt.
I hope this woman doesn't become a cause celebre; what she wrote was vile.

Dinahmo
In the areas that these rioters etc come from an ankle bracelet is a badge of honour. Henna tattoos will be regarded in the same way.

Dinahmo

Oreo

Dinahmo

The people who use SM to spread their hatred are anonymous. Many people who write appalling comments would not say those things face to face. Therefore I'm wondering whether there could be some form of identification that they must wear so that the rest of us knew who they were.

Wrist or ankle bracelets could be covered up but maybe henna on their hands? I don't think that henna washes off quickly. I remember when I had my hair hennaed many years ago I had to grow it out.

Such ID could also be used on those who were rioting last week. It would be cheaper than keeping them in prison.

This is a joke, right?
If not why not go one further and suggest they have some sort of emblem sewn onto their sleeves.🤬

It is a sort of joke but....

There aren't enough people to organize/monitor community service. When we lived in Suffolk a friend (retired teacher) used to manage a group but there were always problems with people not turning up etc.

The people committing the sort of violence against the police and other members of the communities that we saw last week do deserve to be named and shamed. I don't believe that any community service or meeting face to face with members of those communities that have been damaged.

PS - they could unpick an emblem.

Anybody who commits violence against the police or any other member of the community or causes damage, such as burning vehicles, deserves a custodial sentence, but this thread is about keyboard warriors.

Mollygo

growstuff

Wyllow and Doodledog I've been thinking along the same lines as you. For people who haven't been involved in actual violence, maybe it would be a good idea for them to sit down with a group of Muslims and repeat what they've been posting face-to-face. I wonder if they'd still be so brave.

I wonder if that would work with the gangs of groomers, if they had to sit down with the families and/or carers of those girls whom they have abused or caused to be abused.

No, because crimes would have actually been committed. I was thinking of people who have only posted vile online threatening or inciting messages.

growstuff

Wyllow and Doodledog I've been thinking along the same lines as you. For people who haven't been involved in actual violence, maybe it would be a good idea for them to sit down with a group of Muslims and repeat what they've been posting face-to-face. I wonder if they'd still be so brave.

I wonder if that would work with the gangs of groomers, if they had to sit down with the families and/or carers of those girls whom they have abused or caused to be abused.

I agree that the judge made that point but I do not believe that a prison sentence is a deterrent. There were thousands of people involved in the riots last week but the last figure for arrests that I saw was 700.

The Judge made the point, strongly:
even people like you need to go to prison because a message must go out that if you do these terrible acts the courts will say to you 'you must go to prison.'
The sentence is a punishment for this woman, but also as a deterrent for others who would be tempted to imitate it or act upon it. Community service is not nearly so much of a deterrent.

Oreo

Dinahmo

The people who use SM to spread their hatred are anonymous. Many people who write appalling comments would not say those things face to face. Therefore I'm wondering whether there could be some form of identification that they must wear so that the rest of us knew who they were.

Wrist or ankle bracelets could be covered up but maybe henna on their hands? I don't think that henna washes off quickly. I remember when I had my hair hennaed many years ago I had to grow it out.

Such ID could also be used on those who were rioting last week. It would be cheaper than keeping them in prison.

This is a joke, right?
If not why not go one further and suggest they have some sort of emblem sewn onto their sleeves.🤬

It is a sort of joke but....

There aren't enough people to organize/monitor community service. When we lived in Suffolk a friend (retired teacher) used to manage a group but there were always problems with people not turning up etc.

The people committing the sort of violence against the police and other members of the communities that we saw last week do deserve to be named and shamed. I don't believe that any community service or meeting face to face with members of those communities that have been damaged.

PS - they could unpick an emblem.

How about twice weekly, or even daily probation appointments.

You just have to go and sign in to prove you attended.

I had a look at community service sentences.
committees.parliament.uk/committee/519/justice-and-home-affairs-committee/news/199104/better-use-of-community-sentences-would-help-cut-crime-and-ease-pressure-on-prisons/#:~:text=Community%20sentences%20can%20guide%20offenders,widely%20and%20they%20need%20investment.

From my limited understanding, a programme specific to individuals who have committed online offences would be required, operated through the probation service.

Galaxy

The thing about re education is that those wanting to educate are usually wrong on just about everything.
I dont want to think like the racists but I also under no circumstances want to think like the re educators.

It smacks of China doesn’t it, re-education and rehabilitation 😖
I think prison is too draconian and a hefty fine linked with some community work a better way to show people ‘the error of their ways’ with online hate speech.

What do you think the punishment could be for the keyboard warriors Oreo?

Boz

I wonder if there are a lot of angry right-wingers out there upset by the Labour landslide and looking for some sort of release by on-line hate speech?
I didn't vote L but feel they ate doing their best in trying circumstances.

No, I think the rioters and the ones posting online hate messages could well be Labour voters and Conservative voters and those who don’t vote at all.

maddyone

It’s been reported that convicted criminals, some with as many as 100 convictions, many for theft, are not being sent to prison.
I’m not sure it sits well with a 55 year old woman with no previous criminal record at all, being sent to prison for 15 months, because she wrote a vile post on social media (and it was vile, although I only found out what she wrote on here, on GN) whilst long standing convicted criminals avoid prison.
It’s all very disturbing and puzzling to me.

This

Especially hiding behind a username.