Labour caves in to Union demands

I was only thinking this morning that, if she hadn’t crashed the economy, Liz Truss would still be PM. The very Liz Truss who sneered at Macron and was recently in America supporting Trump.

Just think we could return to life under the Tories, where no one benefited but the very wealthy who by gifting to the tories, including Russian oligarchs are now sitting in the house of lords influencing our politics or buying huge yachts, and sailing off into the sunset.

Are those people moaning about pay rises happy with the strikes? The government stopped in to halt the action , which is actually more cost effective than continual never ending strikes.

eazybee

The Unions are the main donors to the Labour Party so it was glaringly obvious their demands would be met.

Pensioners are supposedly the Conservative party's chief supporters (actually, not the ones I know) so they must be punished.
Glaringly obvious.

As are a few more things about Starmer.

You’re behind the times eazybee. Trade Unions are not the biggest donors to the Labour Party, and haven’t been for several years. From opendemocracy:

‘Of the £21.5m in cash received by the party in 2023, just £5.9m came from the trade union movement, compared with £14.5m from companies and individuals – a huge increase on the previous year, and indeed more than in the three previous years of Keir Starmer’s leadership combined. As trade union contributions have dipped slightly, from around £6.9m in 2020 and 2021 to £5.3m in 2022, donations from businesses and individuals have soared: they totalled £2.3m in 2020 and rose to £3m in 2021 and £7.6m in 2022 before nearly doubling last year.’

Freya5

Luckygirl3

Junior doctors, trained by the UK in the UK have been leaving the service for years because their pay and working conditions have been so bad. Whilst at the same time ignoring this problem, the Tories have been denigrating and trying to limit the very immigrants who now dedicate their lives to running the health service in our clinics and hospitals.

Were Labour to do nothing? .... to let the situation continue as their predecessors had?

I think you'll find it's "helping run," not running.!!!

I have been in hospital a lot recently!!!

eazybee

The Unions are the main donors to the Labour Party so it was glaringly obvious their demands would be met.

Pensioners are supposedly the Conservative party's chief supporters (actually, not the ones I know) so they must be punished.
Glaringly obvious.

As are a few more things about Starmer.

Neither the BMA, nor the teachers Union, give money to the Labour Party nor are affiliated with them.

What is not generally known is that trade union members can opt out of the bit of their union payments that go to the Labour Party.

So the money coming from Union Members is made by *individual choices*: most remain opted in.

eazybee

The Unions are the main donors to the Labour Party so it was glaringly obvious their demands would be met.

Pensioners are supposedly the Conservative party's chief supporters (actually, not the ones I know) so they must be punished.
Glaringly obvious.

As are a few more things about Starmer.

Pensioners might be the Conservative parties main supporters but I doubt if they are their main donors. I wonder who that might be? And how they are rewarded?Of course unions are the main donors to the Labour party; it's what the party was based on. And the important thing was to make working conditions for everyone better and safer. Which is a huge part of what the strikes are about.

Politicians of both the major parties have talked about wanting a high wage economy. I don't see why there is so much opposition to raising the pay of people who do the sort of jobs that most of us depend on.

The Unions are the main donors to the Labour Party so it was glaringly obvious their demands would be met.

Pensioners are supposedly the Conservative party's chief supporters (actually, not the ones I know) so they must be punished.
Glaringly obvious.

As are a few more things about Starmer.

Galaxy

I could make things worse by throwing bus drivers in to the mix. They have an average pay of around 25 -30 grand if I remember rightly, hold the same responsibility for peoples lives and face the general public in a way train drivers dont.

They're probably underpaid, too, Galaxy.

But I really don't see why every improvement to working people's pay is met with vociferous objections in some quarters.

I bet no-one posting on this forum has ever turned down a pay increase on the grounds that they didn't deserve it. 😁

I don't understand why public sector workers are not more appreciated either. We would not be a decent functioning society without them.

Plus, their wage increases will help the economy and small businesses.

twinnytwin

This thread isn't another one about causing of inflation - it's about Labour caving into their union paymasters within such a short time in power with nothing in return.

It cost the last govt more to cover the strikes (£75m/day) than it would have done to improve junior doctors' wages (£1bn total).

Surely, we, as grandparents appreciate what NHS has done for our grandchildren (who were either born in NHS hospital or delivered by staff trained by NHS), and for us and our friends at our stage of life.

I have never understood why supply & demand works for everyone except NHS, education etc. We need to keep medics, teachers etc, who the UK public have paid to train.

They are more insulated from them. I have just travelled across country, three trains, never saw the driver once, and to be fair I wish I had had the opportunity not to meet most of the passengers I travelled with

I think you'll find train drivers do indeed face the public and often their venom.

I could make things worse by throwing bus drivers in to the mix. They have an average pay of around 25 -30 grand if I remember rightly, hold the same responsibility for peoples lives and face the general public in a way train drivers dont.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I only posted on this thread due to the comparison between a Train Driver and a Pilot.

I will leave it now

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Boz

I'm fine with the decision to pay the traindrivers and driver-only trains was wrong. Have you any idea how much Airline pilots are paid? Carrying a lot of passengers is a big responsibility.

Comparing a Train Driver to a Pilot?

A train driver goes along on tracks, observing trackside lights/directives.

A Pilot is 35,000 feet in the air, has to be constantly aware of the space, height, weather conditions etc. etc. …

That's odd. I thought that most modern aircraft are flown by automatic pilot apart from at takeoff and landing. So, although pilots have to be aware of conditions throughout the flight and alert to notification of changes it takes a considerable amount of physical and mental stress out of the task.

Train drivers need to be physically handling the train all the time as well as being alert to changes in the warning signals and directives. They also have to be aware of the physical conditions on the lines, such as maliciously placed and natural obstacles on the lines.

There is also the additional traumatic possibility of encountering suicides. These may be more common than people realise. In the last 3 months there have been to my knowledge three suicides on the LNER line on the stretch from Newcastle to Darlington alone. We were seriously affected by one and I was horrified to find that they were not exceptional incidents.

I think it's wrong to dismiss train driving as being easy because trains are on tracks...

How can you possibly compare train drivers to pilots, even with automatic pilot, they still have to take off and land the plane and their training is a lot longer than driving a train. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Also compared to bus drivers who earn considerably less, are not on tracks, also have to be alert to warning signals (traffic lights), be alert to other road users, traffic jams, being public facing (which train drivers are not), I think train drivers have a cushy overpaid job. I certainly don't think they had the public sympathy for their strike as say the junior doctors or nurses

Labour have definitely caved in to the unions. Such an easy 'fix' What happened to the 'black hole'?

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Boz

I'm fine with the decision to pay the traindrivers and driver-only trains was wrong. Have you any idea how much Airline pilots are paid? Carrying a lot of passengers is a big responsibility.

Comparing a Train Driver to a Pilot?

A train driver goes along on tracks, observing trackside lights/directives.

A Pilot is 35,000 feet in the air, has to be constantly aware of the space, height, weather conditions etc. etc. …

That's odd. I thought that most modern aircraft are flown by automatic pilot apart from at takeoff and landing. So, although pilots have to be aware of conditions throughout the flight and alert to notification of changes it takes a considerable amount of physical and mental stress out of the task.

Train drivers need to be physically handling the train all the time as well as being alert to changes in the warning signals and directives. They also have to be aware of the physical conditions on the lines, such as maliciously placed and natural obstacles on the lines.

There is also the additional traumatic possibility of encountering suicides. These may be more common than people realise. In the last 3 months there have been to my knowledge three suicides on the LNER line on the stretch from Newcastle to Darlington alone. We were seriously affected by one and I was horrified to find that they were not exceptional incidents.

I think it's wrong to dismiss train driving as being easy because trains are on tracks...

My son lives close to a level crossing and suicides and accidents are far from rare. I can't remember who it was that told me once [there was a train driver at my gym; it might have been him] that people don't realise how suicides affect train drivers; they really struggle to get over it. And also people don't realise how long it takes for a train to stop. With the recent news about attacks on women on trains I'm relieved that the planned closing down of ticket shops on stations and reduction of guards on trains [not sure what is happening about that?] doesn't seem to have happened. If I was travelling alone on a train at night I'd really want someone else to be on that train in an official capacity even if it does reduce any profit the train company might make. I'm sure that's part and parcel of the negotiations.

MaizieD

I'm still not understanding what is so offensive about workers being well paid for responsible jobs.

It's not offensive to be well paid -- people should be paid well in responsible jobs. Lives in their hands/vehicle - pay them well.

I don’t think anybody said train driving was easy, but they are already paid handsomely.

MaizieD

I'm still not understanding what is so offensive about workers being well paid for responsible jobs.

I am not being offensive about any salary, just pointing out anomalies.

I'm still not understanding what is so offensive about workers being well paid for responsible jobs.

GrannyGravy13

Boz

I'm fine with the decision to pay the traindrivers and driver-only trains was wrong. Have you any idea how much Airline pilots are paid? Carrying a lot of passengers is a big responsibility.

Comparing a Train Driver to a Pilot?

A train driver goes along on tracks, observing trackside lights/directives.

A Pilot is 35,000 feet in the air, has to be constantly aware of the space, height, weather conditions etc. etc. …

That's odd. I thought that most modern aircraft are flown by automatic pilot apart from at takeoff and landing. So, although pilots have to be aware of conditions throughout the flight and alert to notification of changes it takes a considerable amount of physical and mental stress out of the task.

Train drivers need to be physically handling the train all the time as well as being alert to changes in the warning signals and directives. They also have to be aware of the physical conditions on the lines, such as maliciously placed and natural obstacles on the lines.

There is also the additional traumatic possibility of encountering suicides. These may be more common than people realise. In the last 3 months there have been to my knowledge three suicides on the LNER line on the stretch from Newcastle to Darlington alone. We were seriously affected by one and I was horrified to find that they were not exceptional incidents.

I think it's wrong to dismiss train driving as being easy because trains are on tracks...

Boz

I'm fine with the decision to pay the traindrivers and driver-only trains was wrong. Have you any idea how much Airline pilots are paid? Carrying a lot of passengers is a big responsibility.

Are you comparing driving, on the ground, on tracks -- to flying in the air? I'd hope air pilots ear a decent wage.