Labour caves in to Union demands

David49

Most serves in another role on the railways for a few years then they have to pass medical checks similar to an airline pilot. Stricter than a truck or PSV driver, then drive under supervision for a couple of years without making errors. The standard of concentration and attention to detail is very high, they are responsible for the safety of the whole train so have high level of technical knowledge as well.

Thanks for explaining that 😊

Wyllow3

Unions are needed as much as ever.

They include workers on the often grotesque Zero Hours contracts, people paid under minimum wage, and concern themselves day by day with conditions in the workplace as well as pay. They don't dominate the Labour Party, but work within it.

For example in the list of legislation announced in the Kings Speech it includes a ban on "exploitative" zero-hours contracts which allow employers to only pay staff when they need them. The Employment Rights Bill will give workers the right to a contract reflecting the number of hours they regularly work.

I agree, as long as the tail doesn’t start wagging the dog.Like in the 1970’s.

(I just missed your post mollygo thank you, it raises interesting issues)

I think it's in a stage of flux. and inevitable, as so much has changed as regards the end of big industry "workers and bosses".

Labour are proposing a whole raft of legislation around employment and union laws, hard to get your head round. They don't just relate to zero contract proposals but to issues like Union access to the workplace, Industrial action, recognition, and employment law.

This was written before the Kings speech and specific proposals but gives an idea.

rangeofreasonableresponses.com/2024/05/27/labours-plans-for-trade-union-law/

www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-big-donors-fund-our-political-parties/

Mollygo said:
Their income from donations fell during the Corbyn years but surged in the run up to the general election.
But according to the Financial Times
"Labour party raises £10m more than Conservatives in 2017" This was, however more likely due to the increase in membership numbers rather than donations from business or unions.

Some unions do seem to have been drifting away from Labour due to Starmer's more right wing approach.

People naturally disagree about what is relevant to a thread. It depends how we have seen it from our own POV.

But the thread hasn't picked up a lot of interest after a page or so, tho I have learnt a lot along the way looking things up.

I can’t find any reference to unions not being needed on this, or any thread though.

No: I was following trains of thought by reviewing the thread as a whole, some things I decided to say relevant to the topic of Unions and the L Party, given the O/P.

Who has said unions aren’t needed?
Or was that just an off the cuff remark?

Unions are needed as much as ever.

They include workers on the often grotesque Zero Hours contracts, people paid under minimum wage, and concern themselves day by day with conditions in the workplace as well as pay. They don't dominate the Labour Party, but work within it.

For example in the list of legislation announced in the Kings Speech it includes a ban on "exploitative" zero-hours contracts which allow employers to only pay staff when they need them. The Employment Rights Bill will give workers the right to a contract reflecting the number of hours they regularly work.

Labour has “traditionally” received funding from donors and mega donors for a long time, though the total figure is not known because only donations above a certain amount have to be declared.
They have “traditionally” received less than the conservatives but the contributions have not been negligible.
Their income from donations fell during the Corbyn years but surged in the run up to the general election.

Traditionally the Labour Party has not been supported by those in business (with some exceptions) and that has changed with the policies of the Party.

Malcolm Walker - the founder of supermarket chain Iceland - is a good example.

Much has changed, away from the large industrial businesses, towards often small units where relations are not adversarial as they used to be.

Yes, I've seen that article, and Labour has started to attract donors that it wouldn't previously have had.
???
What a strange thing to say. Why wouldn’t the LP have previously had these donors? Did they not think Labour was worth contributing to in the past?

Getting new donors applies to all parties.

Labour will need even more donors if the idea that you don’t have to contribute to the LP but can opt out.

Yes, I've seen that article, and Labour has started to attract donors that it wouldn't previously have had.

The biggest donation was probably the hundreds of thousands of pounds given to Reform by one entrepreneur.

Its not actually an opt-out in all unions, I just assumed, just checked on Unison where you have to opt-in.

www.unison.org.uk/about/our-organisation/political-affiliations-and-support/

"In UNISON you can choose to opt-in and pay an additional 5 per cent contribution on top of your subscription to either the Labour Link or the Campaign Fund. You can also opt-in to contribute to both."

Broadly speaking I still think that political parties do represent different groups of people/interests in our society and its in the interests of many working people to support Labour which is why people do either opt in or choose not to opt out

"Why does UNISON campaign in general elections?"
www.unison.org.uk/about/our-organisation/political-affiliations-and-support/unison-campaign-general-elections/

As easybee found, bullying happens everywhere but of course one of the reasons for unions is and has always been to stand up to those in power when needful.

Wyllow3, all parties get funding from mega donors. Usually Conservatives get more, although in the run up to the election the balance was more even.

www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/06/who-are-the-big-conservative-and-labour-donors

But only Labour opt you in to paying through your union funds.

No Flappergirl I did not, (decline to accept pay rises.) I never went on strike in the whole of my teaching career and deeply disapprove of striking to win more money. If I wanted a pay rise I went for promotion.
I worked for the union in an official capacity in return for the help they gave me in combating injustices from two Head teachers (both staunch Labour supporters) who thought they could circumvent rules to their own advantage.

As regards the "opt out" of unions - no one is obliged to join a Union in the first place.
Since anyone who des join can opt out, I'm in favour of this continuing, as I feel we need a balance as to who supports other major parties. It's never simple, but look at how for example how Conservative donors have been rewarded with public contracts - yes thats our money and we have no choice.

www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/27/public-contracts-companies-tory-donors

Mt61

Why do train drivers get such a hefty wage? I know a train driver who has moved to a 2 million pound house in Wales with his wife who is a sahw

And?

Most serves in another role on the railways for a few years then they have to pass medical checks similar to an airline pilot. Stricter than a truck or PSV driver, then drive under supervision for a couple of years without making errors. The standard of concentration and attention to detail is very high, they are responsible for the safety of the whole train so have high level of technical knowledge as well.

David49

Mt61

Why do train drivers get such a hefty wage? I know a train driver who has moved to a 2 million pound house in Wales with his wife who is a sahw

The training is very long, they have know the line they are using intimately, they are responsible for many hundreds of passengers without a co driver, drivers are only a small % of rail staff but without them nothing moves.

Out of interest, how long is the training for a train driver and is it really that difficult to drive a train?

Mt61

Why do train drivers get such a hefty wage? I know a train driver who has moved to a 2 million pound house in Wales with his wife who is a sahw

And your problem with this is...?

Mt61

Why do train drivers get such a hefty wage? I know a train driver who has moved to a 2 million pound house in Wales with his wife who is a sahw

The training is very long, they have know the line they are using intimately, they are responsible for many hundreds of passengers without a co driver, drivers are only a small % of rail staff but without them nothing moves.

Why do train drivers get such a hefty wage? I know a train driver who has moved to a 2 million pound house in Wales with his wife who is a sahw

And the Labour Party's income from trades unions is about half that from companies and individuals, hardly 'paymasters'.

I thought the point was being made that you had to opt out of paying to the Labour Party, because the choice to pay had been made for you.
Are businesses or individuals obliged to contribute to any party including Labour. Do we need to opt out of any of our pay being made to political parties or is it just Labour?