IHT- how to avoid if you have enough wealth

V3ra

^I knew you weren't being personal. Sahm is a funny old topic, many of our mums were, a few still are - divisive at best! I'm grownup, can take on what people post, I can hold my own ground as well.^

Norah from what I understand from what you've posted previously, you may not have gone out to work but you've certainly pulled your weight in supporting your husband's business by doing admin tasks, so it's not as if you've "never worked" and spent all your time at the nail bar (or wherever) 😏

I've done all the book work / readying for accounting and bids. No earnings to pay taxes, no set hours. He earns and pays taxes.

Most important, to us, I could and did all the hours of school runs - we're in the fens, our daughters and GC were/are in school 45 minutes to hour drive.

Living in the fens is not living in a village or town. No nail bars.

I'm aware people want others to be similar to them, not all are.

I knew you weren't being personal. Sahm is a funny old topic, many of our mums were, a few still are - divisive at best! I'm grownup, can take on what people post, I can hold my own ground as well.

Norah from what I understand from what you've posted previously, you may not have gone out to work but you've certainly pulled your weight in supporting your husband's business by doing admin tasks, so it's not as if you've "never worked" and spent all your time at the nail bar (or wherever) 😏

Doodledog

I don't think rises to IHT would solve all the budget issues. I don't know what would - not one thing, anyway. But it would help as part of a package. How many people would pay if the rate were £5m? Not many, if only 4% pay at £1m, I'm guessing.

And as I hope you know, I wasn't being personal. It's just that income tax is not the fairest way to pay, as it excludes so many, and penalises those who provide goods and services as well as paying tax and NI. I don't know about a family tax - maybe it would work. I agree about rises to the personal allowance and to the additional rate of tax.

I don't believe one thing will solve the budget issues.

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of all taxes.

I knew you weren't being personal. Sahm is a funny old topic, many of our mums were, a few still are - divisive at best! I'm grownup, can take on what people post, I can hold my own ground as well.

I don't think rises to IHT would solve all the budget issues. I don't know what would - not one thing, anyway. But it would help as part of a package. How many people would pay if the rate were £5m? Not many, if only 4% pay at £1m, I'm guessing.

And as I hope you know, I wasn't being personal. It's just that income tax is not the fairest way to pay, as it excludes so many, and penalises those who provide goods and services as well as paying tax and NI. I don't know about a family tax - maybe it would work. I agree about rises to the personal allowance and to the additional rate of tax.

Doodledog

Norah

Doodledog

They can. We haven't had any family money either. But it is much easier if people do get it.

If it weren't, why do people feel so strongly about IHT?

Full circle.

Taxes have already been paid on our saved money.

Raise income taxes - faster, nobody has to die first, easy, fair.

But income tax is only charged to those with an income - ie those who work. Those who don't get a free ride, and that may be easy, but it's not fair, IMO.

As a sahm I opened myself up to that response.

I knew when I answered

Other than me not paying on not earning, we've paid the same myriad of taxes as everyone else. As everyone we pay a lot of taxes.

Income tax could be addressed - family tax total for all family income or individual tax per person. Income tax must go up for higher earners and the personal allowance must go up as well.

I don't see IHT as a way forward to solve government budget issues. I could think positively if threshold was £5,000,000, rate was 60%.

No, I don't think it's connected to morality either, and there is no high ground to be had. I don't think anyone is saying that, though.

I see no moral high ground in whether you inherit money or not. It is luck of the draw. Few people have any say in whether they get an inheritance or not.

With so many people of our generation owning houses and the majority never needing to pay for care, it is inevitable that quite a lot of people will inherit money one way or another.

Norah

Doodledog

They can. We haven't had any family money either. But it is much easier if people do get it.

If it weren't, why do people feel so strongly about IHT?

Full circle.

Taxes have already been paid on our saved money.

Raise income taxes - faster, nobody has to die first, easy, fair.

But income tax is only charged to those with an income - ie those who work. Those who don't get a free ride, and that may be easy, but it's not fair, IMO.

LOUISA1523

Witzend

One thing we’re doing legally, is putting a fair bit of cash into S&S ISAs for the Gdcs. They will have access at 18, which is slightly worrying - eldest is now 9, dh and I will be 84 and 85.

So in case we’re gone by then, TBH not unlikely, I shall be leaving letters pleading with them not to blow the lot!

Can you change the access age to 21? At 18 very likely to be blown on having a good time 😊
My aunty left my 3 3k each at 18.....it was gone on the blink of an eye 🙄

Unfortunately, you can’t.

I won’t mind if they blow a bit of it, on e.g. a holiday, but I will point out that it’s an awful lot easier to spend money than to earn or save it, and one day they may well want the deposit for a house or flat. So since they’re not very likely to be given such windfalls again for quite a long time, it might be sensible to save most of it.

M0nica

There is a difference between 'family money' and inheritance.

Generally speaking, 'family money' is money available to help buy a house, start a business, or otherwise advance a career and comes to one during ones economically active years.

Inheritance is what you get when someone dies and for most people, especially, nowadays with increased longevity, is money you inherit very late in your career or in retirement. It enables one's retirement to be less restricted and pays for private health treatment and care costs.

Thank you for your explanation.

We've received neither, I considered the expressions equal.

We're quite pleased with ourselves in the no family money/inheritance regard. We've no problem giving money now for that which we view as important (Catholic school, any lessons, University, private health).

No effect on retirement.

However, I suppose he'd have to retire for us to know.

Since the clear intention of the new government is to promote Muslims in society and disadvantage those of us who have worked and made fiscal contributions all our lives

Perhaps some people are both Muslims and have made fiscal contributions?

Perhaps some people have endured a catalogue of bad luck and poor health and a difficult start and can't go on a cruise and worry about IHT.

There is a difference between 'family money' and inheritance.

Generally speaking, 'family money' is money available to help buy a house, start a business, or otherwise advance a career and comes to one during ones economically active years.

Inheritance is what you get when someone dies and for most people, especially, nowadays with increased longevity, is money you inherit very late in your career or in retirement. It enables one's retirement to be less restricted and pays for private health treatment and care costs.

Doodledog

They can. We haven't had any family money either. But it is much easier if people do get it.

If it weren't, why do people feel so strongly about IHT?

Full circle.

Taxes have already been paid on our saved money.

Raise income taxes - faster, nobody has to die first, easy, fair.

They can. We haven't had any family money either. But it is much easier if people do get it.

If it weren't, why do people feel so strongly about IHT?

Norah

Doodledog If someone has made money throughout their life, by definition they are older, so are unlikely to 'make opportunities' with it.

I believe 'making opportunities' was in reference to people making their own opportunities without family money - financial support.

No family money for us. We made our way alone with family financially supporting our children attending Catholic School.

People can make their own way.

Well said !

Doodledog If someone has made money throughout their life, by definition they are older, so are unlikely to 'make opportunities' with it.

I believe 'making opportunities' was in reference to people making their own opportunities without family money - financial support.

No family money for us. We made our way alone with family financially supporting our children attending Catholic School.

People can make their own way.

Perhaps a rise in the threshold. I'd imagine there would be far less complaining about IHT with a threshold of £5,000,000.

Perhaps IHT on the Queen's estate and those of her heirs - everyone putting money toward the goal of a better society?

You were the one talking about people who live in the SE - hence my point.
I was saying that in areas such as the SE house prices have risen far more than in other areas. As a result, when that unearned income is passed on to younger generations, the inequality between geographical areas is perpetuated, and genuine mobility is lost. People, however capable, are unable to move into more expensive areas, so the pool of applicants for jobs is smaller, and the country as a whole loses out, as well as the people who get stuck in cheaper areas.

People who 'make opportunities' do not always have parental money behind them. It could just as well be money they have earned themselves throughout their life in which case they have already paid tax on it.
If someone has made money throughout their life, by definition they are older, so are unlikely to 'make opportunities' with it. They are more likely to retire, then pass on the money to their children. Of course it is easier to make opportunities when there is financial support, and if you live somewhere where there is investment. If you can afford to live there thanks to help from family money then it's easier again.

So, the people who sit back and choose not to 'take advantage of the chances they get' should be bailed out by everybody else?
You mean they shouldn't get unearned money? Well, that's kind of where we came in, isn't it?

I think that some of you are forgetting what are taxes are spent on!

Schools
Roads
Supporting culture
Libraries

I suppose that some of you will object to money going to art galleries, theatres, ballet, opera and music. These things are essential to our well being. Think of the outcry when a Tory MP ordered some murals in a refugee childrens' centre to be painted over. Robert Jenrick I think.

Maddyone - not meaning to rain on your parade but the Galapagos Islands are now suffering from over tourism.

Doodledog

Sorry - I'm not sure what where you live has to do with any of my points. They are not about you, or me, or anyone in particular.

Yes, we make opportunities, but it is much easier for someone to 'make an opportunity' when they have parental money behind them than if they are helping to support their parents out of a low salary.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but in mine the government is trying to produce a level playing field to give everyone the same chances. Not everyone will take advantage of the chances they get, of course, but taking a bit more from the 4% of the population who pay IHT on money they have not earned is not too big a price to pay for giving more chances to more people.

You were the one talking about people who live in the SE - hence my point.
People who 'make opportunities' do not always have parental money behind them. It could just as well be money they have earned themselves throughout their life in which case they have already paid tax on it.
So, the people who sit back and choose not to 'take advantage of the chances they get' should be bailed out by everybody else?

Doodledog

I know, and unfortunately I agree. I'm not totally naive. I just think that we need to try. And that every little helps.

I agree. I also think that a PM leading the way, setting an example by putting his own government house in order would make people less cynical about the things they do.

Even a simple step like e.g. by removing the subsidised meals for MPs would show willing.
It’s never happened before and it’s not going to happen now.

I know, and unfortunately I agree. I'm not totally naive. I just think that we need to try. And that every little helps.

Doodledog don’t know quite how to say it but social inequality has been around from almost the beginning of mankind. So far it has escaped any real intervention and I think, without any malice, that a fairer society is much harder to achieve and is beyond the reach of any government at the moment. I hope for better but ….

ronib

*Doodledog*. I believe there’s very little chance that social inequality will be remedied by this Labour government. Or any government come to think of it. So tax away - won’t make any difference.

Tax alone won’t, no. We need more fundamental reforms too. I very much hope that we’ll get them, but if the horror at having a tiny bit of privilege redirected to others is anything to go by, I have my doubts. There is no point in being radical if the government will be voted out after one term, and my worry is that they won’t be allowed the chance to see a fairness agenda through. Time will tell though.