Change free prescriptions to state pension age?

Yes when I look at it logically I agree with what you say. It's just when you are ill and old everything seems to get you down and worried

Nobody has ever been asked to pay £5000 a month for an NHS prescription.

I hope you are right Doodledog because I am already beginning to worry.

They are most unlikely to get rid of free prescriptions, Tiley, but even if they did you wouldn't be charged £5000 a month. I think a full price prescription is £11. This is all scaremongering.

Well if they do away with free prescriptions for over 60s I'm well and truly stuffed. One of my meds that literally keep me alive and can only be dispensed at the hospital is £5,000 a month plus I am on other drugs to stop seizures so just been working out how many months I could afford, they would be giving me a death sentence.

growstuf if you got a free season ticket for the first year and an increase on PC sufficient for you to save for it after year 1, you would be no worse off and would have saved the money you needed.

HC2 certificates should be more widely promoted.

The thread, however, is about whether prescriptions should be free at 60 or not until SPA. The fact that there is another thread running about the unsubstantiated rumour that they are under threat along with bus passes, and that is muddying the waters, I think.

I'm not sure that being over 60 is in itself a reason to get free prescriptions, but nor do I think that they should be means-tested for all the reasons I've stated. If we had easier access to doctors, and our healthcare could be better managed so that nobody could hoard medicine then savings could maybe be made, but as it is drugs do seem to be stockpiled and wasted when they are free.

I do understand people wanting to have a supply in reserve, as it can be days between a prescription being issued and being fulfilled, and people could be away or otherwise unable to collect them when they are ready. There is also the psychological need that some have to have supplies of things that they can't control (in this case non-OTC medicines), but reports suggest that large numbers of drugs are destroyed as people stockpile far too many. The trouble is that only a significant charge would mitigate that to any useful extent.

For those reasons it seems that charging is necessary, but to me, if it is necessary for some groups it is necessary for all - why would someone over 60, or someone on pension credit, or with an HC2 certificate be any less likely to hoard than someone who is not?

PS. That's why people in my position (and worse off) are eligible for HC2 certificates.

Sorry MOnica, but if I were to be told that I needed to take medications for life (as I was when I was first diagnosed with diabetes), I would really struggle to find £114.50 at the drop of a hat (and there are people worse off than I am). It's not that I can't manage, but I genuinely don't have much money, despite budgeting very carefully.

Not agreeing with you doesn’t we ‘clearly have learnt no money management skills and are completely infantilised’. It just means that we have the empathy and understanding to recognise that not everyone is in the same financial boat as ourselves.

By definition everyone on here is likely to be more able to manage than many - we are all paying for broadband and communication devices for a start - but the point of free prescriptions is that not everybody is in that position, and medication can be essential to life.

People with a lifetime of working and paying for everything behind them are not likely to be the issue, but even they might struggle when they are no longer working and don’t have the ability to pay. Health is too important to depend on access to money - or, indeed, to the ability to manage. Not everyone can manage, for a variety of reasons, and luckily that has been recognised by the system.

M0nica Just give everyone a free season ticket for the first year, allowing them to save for the second year.

Well yes that would work but it wasn't your earlier suggestion of just raise PC by £3 a week. Given the way withdrawal of WFA has been handled so far with no mitigations announced, why would you think any government would be proactive over withdrawing free prescriptions?
It's not a matter of faces being firmly set against any changes, it's a matter of wanting those with the smallest budgets with no leeway not to be so disadvantaged.

Rosie51 The majority of pensioners and those close to the edge a PC apart, less than 15% of the total, the other 85% are quite capable of managing it. Quarterly season tickets are now available as well.
Just give everyone a free season ticket for the first year, allowing them to save for the second year. I can think of several other alternative solutions.

Why do people not look for solutions to problems? Why do they just say no to any change, without suggesting solutions

I am beginning to understand why the government treats us like children and gives us our pensions in these dribbly little hypothetised amounts. Many of us clearly, after a lifetime of earning and paying for everything, have learnt no money management skills at all and are completely infantilised by the time they reach 60, but the majority of us aren't.

Nothing will change and nothing will improve if everyone's face is firmly set against any change of any kind and in any way.

By the way, I agree that for somebody with income low enough to receive means-tested benefits (or just missing out), finding money for a prepayment certificate is tough - but people don't have to - they can apply for an HS2 certificate.

It seems to me that this thread is a little confused.

Even if people have to pay for prescriptions before state pension age, there are exemptions for people on low incomes who don't qualify for other benefits. As I wrote above, the threshold for an HS2 certificate is higher than other means-tested benefits and eligibility is calculated differently. It's not possible to give a single figure because the calculation is quite complicated, but I think it's roughly £14,000 a year, which is higher than the current cut-off for pension credit.

M0nica

If pension credit levels were increased if free prescriptions went, no one on lower incomes would be any worse off. A prescription 'season ticket' costs slightly over £2 a week and covers all your prescriptions, no matter how many you have.

A rise of £3 a week in PCwould do it. I would just get a season ticket and my pension is sufficient to absorb it. This applied to about 75% of all pensioners.

M0nica how many times does it need to be said that in order to benefit from your much quoted slightly over £2 a week to get a prescription season ticket, one must be in a position to stump up the full amount in advance? So your £3 a week rise in PC wouldn't make an iota of difference in the first year. It would seem your admitted healthy financial status somewhat blinds you to the reality of those on PC or just above the level of income necessary to receive it. I'm also financially healthy enough not to qualify for which I'm very grateful, but I do see and don't dismiss the problems for those less fortunate than me.

Doodledog

growstuff

There's no need to raise current benefit thresholds slightly for people to obtain free prescription. The current threshold for an HC2 certificate is higher than it is for most means-tested benefits. This entitles the holder to free NHS prescriptions, dnetal treatmen, sight tests, a full value voucher for glasses and contact lenses and free wigs and fabric supports and travel to receive NHS treatment.

My income means I am above the threshold for pension credit, but I am entitled to an HS2 certificate. As I'm over 60, I receive free prescriptions anyway, but it does mean my NHS dental check ups and treatment are free, as are my prescribed glasses. I've never claimed transport to NHS appointments, as I use my bus pass for most of the journey, but I could claim fuel for the remainder of the journey.

In that case, scrapping free prescriptions and adding £3 to pension credit wouldn't make a difference to the health of pensioners - all it would do is further disadvantage those who don't qualify for it, as means-testing invariably disadvantages people.

No, it wouldn't make any difference. If people aren't eligible for an HS2 certificate because their income and/or savings are too high, they certainly won't be eligible for Pension Credit. Incidentally, HS2 certificates are available to people of any age. The same arguments apply to HS2 certificates as Pension Credit and other means-tested benefits.

growstuff

There's no need to raise current benefit thresholds slightly for people to obtain free prescription. The current threshold for an HC2 certificate is higher than it is for most means-tested benefits. This entitles the holder to free NHS prescriptions, dnetal treatmen, sight tests, a full value voucher for glasses and contact lenses and free wigs and fabric supports and travel to receive NHS treatment.

My income means I am above the threshold for pension credit, but I am entitled to an HS2 certificate. As I'm over 60, I receive free prescriptions anyway, but it does mean my NHS dental check ups and treatment are free, as are my prescribed glasses. I've never claimed transport to NHS appointments, as I use my bus pass for most of the journey, but I could claim fuel for the remainder of the journey.

In that case, scrapping free prescriptions and adding £3 to pension credit wouldn't make a difference to the health of pensioners - all it would do is further disadvantage those who don't qualify for it, as means-testing invariably disadvantages people.

I realise that these sums are not high to those with a reasonable disposable income, but this is yet another example of how such people can fail to realise what they mean to those with just enough to get by, and who feel able to tell others what they can afford.

This is so true, Doodledog, you've said it succinctly.

And, of course, this sum would be in addition to all the other sums - all those increases in the pipeline, rent (my cleaning lady has just been notified that she will have to pay £250 per month extra on her £1000 rent), energy, telecoms, food, etc.

So yes, £32 per month does not appear to be a huge amount - in isolation, but it's just one more price increase among many others.

Just how much more can people on low incomes continue to eke out of them.

My cleaning lady and her husband are going to cut back - cut back on what they've already cut-back on to date. They reward themselves with 10 days per year in a caravan on the coast. It used to be 2 weeks, but they cut back to 10 days, and now will reduce it to 7 days. I can see them eventually giving up the idea of an annual holiday all together. After all, it's a 'luxury' isn't it - they should just work for the remainder of their lives (they're both coming up to retirement age but cannot afford to retire) until they are too ill or old to carry on.

But, they are lucky - at least they've got something they can cut back on - but what then? What happens next year, and the year after, when there's nothing left to cut back?

It's always the same old story - financial crisis, black holes - all dealt with by taking from the poor and the just-about-managing.

Whilst the wealth-gap grows wider. And we listen to the howls of outrage regarding VAT on private schools because parents who can afford the, what, in excess of £60k per year - will have to pay another £2k or whatever. My cleaning lady will have to find another £3k per year just to keep the roof over her head. And yes, she has looked around for something cheaper, but there's very little available, and even if she moves, how long before the rent increases, yet again?

Doodledog A small rise in PC might cover the cost, but at £3 a week extra, 10 weeks will go by before a three month certificate can be bought without dipping in to savings or money set aside for other things. Also, if someone has a tight week, with an extra bill or something breaking down, there could be no spare money at all, even with the extra £3. As it stands, prescriptions are free for over 60s, so whatever else people are going without, their health is looked after.

With all due respect, it may seem to you as though pensioners are treated like children, but that's because you don't have to think of every penny.

This is why. Perfect answer.

Not everyone has the same income. Period.

Dickens

M0nica

Doodledog

It would still differentiate between those who need regular drugs and those who don't. And the bus pass going would make little difference to drivers (or to Mick and Keith) but could mean that those just above PC level don't get out much.

No it wouldn's. The cost would be the same whether you were on one medication, 20 medications or occasional medication. Except that if you are on no regular medication, jusr occasional, it might be cheaper to pay as you go.

Although given the way doctors shell out prescriptions for high cholesterol, high blood pressur, indigestion and anything else they can think of there are precious few older people who do not have regular medication.

I was one of them until 18 months ago and for the last 20 years, whenever I had a contact with any medical facility away from the surgery staff would be quite incredulous that I was on no medication. The medication I do take was prescribed on the basis, and a very inadequate basis, that I just might have had a stroke. Now it has been proved quite conclusively that I didn't, I intend to contact my GP to stop taking them. Just in case they have to be phased out, rather than just stopped.

High Cholesterol? Here's a prescription. Blood Pressure high? Take these tablets twice a day. Oh, Blood Sugar's high - take this medication. It's routine isn't it, more or less.

Of course, you will be given general advice to 'watch-your-diet' and cut down on this, that or the other.

The thing is, it's easier - and cheaper for the NHS I guess - to put people on medication rather than engage them with a change of lifestyle.

Because a change of lifestyle can be hard work. My OH managed to reverse his type 2 diabetes purely by diet and lifestyle changes a few years ago - but he fell off the wagon and now his blood sugar is all over the place.

Lifestyle doesn't reverse all cases of high cholesterol or high blood sugar. I've had T2 diabetes for over 30 years, but never been overweight and have always eaten reasonably healthily and been active.

PS. I don't feel that I'm treated as a child just because I know that my healthcare needs are free.

There's no need to raise current benefit thresholds slightly for people to obtain free prescription. The current threshold for an HC2 certificate is higher than it is for most means-tested benefits. This entitles the holder to free NHS prescriptions, dnetal treatmen, sight tests, a full value voucher for glasses and contact lenses and free wigs and fabric supports and travel to receive NHS treatment.

My income means I am above the threshold for pension credit, but I am entitled to an HS2 certificate. As I'm over 60, I receive free prescriptions anyway, but it does mean my NHS dental check ups and treatment are free, as are my prescribed glasses. I've never claimed transport to NHS appointments, as I use my bus pass for most of the journey, but I could claim fuel for the remainder of the journey.

A pre-payment certificate is £115 a year, or £32 for 3 months.

I realise that these sums are not high to those with a reasonable disposable income, but this is yet another example of how such people can fail to realise what they mean to those with just enough to get by, and who feel able to tell others what they can afford.

A small rise in PC might cover the cost, but at £3 a week extra, 10 weeks will go by before a three month certificate can be bought without dipping in to savings or money set aside for other things. Also, if someone has a tight week, with an extra bill or something breaking down, there could be no spare money at all, even with the extra £3. As it stands, prescriptions are free for over 60s, so whatever else people are going without, their health is looked after.

With all due respect, it may seem to you as though pensioners are treated like children, but that's because you don't have to think of every penny.

M0nica

Doodledog

It would still differentiate between those who need regular drugs and those who don't. And the bus pass going would make little difference to drivers (or to Mick and Keith) but could mean that those just above PC level don't get out much.

No it wouldn's. The cost would be the same whether you were on one medication, 20 medications or occasional medication. Except that if you are on no regular medication, jusr occasional, it might be cheaper to pay as you go.

Although given the way doctors shell out prescriptions for high cholesterol, high blood pressur, indigestion and anything else they can think of there are precious few older people who do not have regular medication.

I was one of them until 18 months ago and for the last 20 years, whenever I had a contact with any medical facility away from the surgery staff would be quite incredulous that I was on no medication. The medication I do take was prescribed on the basis, and a very inadequate basis, that I just might have had a stroke. Now it has been proved quite conclusively that I didn't, I intend to contact my GP to stop taking them. Just in case they have to be phased out, rather than just stopped.

High Cholesterol? Here's a prescription. Blood Pressure high? Take these tablets twice a day. Oh, Blood Sugar's high - take this medication. It's routine isn't it, more or less.

Of course, you will be given general advice to 'watch-your-diet' and cut down on this, that or the other.

The thing is, it's easier - and cheaper for the NHS I guess - to put people on medication rather than engage them with a change of lifestyle.

Because a change of lifestyle can be hard work. My OH managed to reverse his type 2 diabetes purely by diet and lifestyle changes a few years ago - but he fell off the wagon and now his blood sugar is all over the place.

Doodledog

It would still differentiate between those who need regular drugs and those who don't. And the bus pass going would make little difference to drivers (or to Mick and Keith) but could mean that those just above PC level don't get out much.

No it wouldn's. The cost would be the same whether you were on one medication, 20 medications or occasional medication. Except that if you are on no regular medication, jusr occasional, it might be cheaper to pay as you go.

Although given the way doctors shell out prescriptions for high cholesterol, high blood pressur, indigestion and anything else they can think of there are precious few older people who do not have regular medication.

I was one of them until 18 months ago and for the last 20 years, whenever I had a contact with any medical facility away from the surgery staff would be quite incredulous that I was on no medication. The medication I do take was prescribed on the basis, and a very inadequate basis, that I just might have had a stroke. Now it has been proved quite conclusively that I didn't, I intend to contact my GP to stop taking them. Just in case they have to be phased out, rather than just stopped.