U.S. Presidential debate

Funny one- PMSL!

I’d think it was genuine,too. Especially in the Bible Belt where many of his supporters are. I kind of get why, having formerly been a member of an American style Baptist church. It’s not so much the man, more his stance on things like abortion and saying he is ‘saved’.

I think its probably genuine!

Wyllow3

Yes Dickens, he does, through and through, and also quite a lot of paranoia, as in truly believing if you are against him you must be on a witch hunt against the Chosen One, a Saviour.

"Many Trump supporters believe God has chosen him to rule"
www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2023/12/20/many-trump-supporters-believe-god-has-chosen-him-to-rule

I saw a photo' of a typical American house - neat lawn, suburban - with a black painted board and "God chose Trump" in white lettering etched on to it, on the front garden.

Of course, these things can be photoshopped, and then there's AI generated photo's... but, it's believable.

... and danged scary!

Yes Dickens, he does, through and through, and also quite a lot of paranoia, as in truly believing if you are against him you must be on a witch hunt against the Chosen One, a Saviour.

"Many Trump supporters believe God has chosen him to rule"
www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2023/12/20/many-trump-supporters-believe-god-has-chosen-him-to-rule

Wyllow3

Trump's knowledge of geography is somewhat wobbly!

One of the latest was a statement that Hungary (who he admires greatly and can name the leader) borders Russia and the Ukraine.

It may seem trivial but he clearly intends to try and force a "solution' if he gets into power.

Foreign policy will be at the mercy of his uneducated whims.

I think that its likely that a lot of US citizens are not particularly knowledgeable either in this huge and fairly isolationist country and won't vote on the basis of foreign policy.

Trump believes that none of the current wars or conflicts would've happened if he'd been in power instead of Biden.

He claims he knows Zelensky and Putin very well. Putin (according to a radio interview in 2022), he knows very, very well. He also insists that both men respect him.

... Zelensky might - but the respect Putin has for Trump is probably more the kind of 'respect' that exists when one tyrant can be useful to the other.

I think Trump suffers from folie de grandeur.

Wyllow3

Trump's knowledge of geography is somewhat wobbly!

One of the latest was a statement that Hungary (who he admires greatly and can name the leader) borders Russia and the Ukraine.

It may seem trivial but he clearly intends to try and force a "solution' if he gets into power.

Foreign policy will be at the mercy of his uneducated whims.

I think that its likely that a lot of US citizens are not particularly knowledgeable either in this huge and fairly isolationist country and won't vote on the basis of foreign policy.

He and his followers do appear Isolationist.

Well done Trump citing Viktor Orban and liking dictators.

Trump's knowledge of geography is somewhat wobbly!

One of the latest was a statement that Hungary (who he admires greatly and can name the leader) borders Russia and the Ukraine.

It may seem trivial but he clearly intends to try and force a "solution' if he gets into power.

Foreign policy will be at the mercy of his uneducated whims.

I think that its likely that a lot of US citizens are not particularly knowledgeable either in this huge and fairly isolationist country and won't vote on the basis of foreign policy.

HousePlantQueen

Dickens

MaizieD

even so Harris is gaining support and should win comfortably

I sincerely hope you're right about this, David. UK commentators are being very cagey about predicting a Harris win.

Boris Johnson, writing for the Daily Mail back in January, is fully behind Trump.

Apparently, his return to the White House could be just what the world needs.

It appears that those who oppose Trump are part of the "global wokerati". Whatever that is.

Both Johnson and Trump have their supporters here in the UK. Which I find unsettling.

Johnson is no longer of any consequence, politically, and is noticeable in his absence on any political discussions on TV or radio. It looks to me as if the current Tory administration, such as it is, are ignoring him rather like the daft, embarrassing relative who makes a fool of himself at events.

I agree that UK based supporters of Trump are unsettling, and worrying, they do not even have the excuse of choosing to ignore his repulsive behaviour now, and in the past, because they will benefit financially (like my USA based cousin).

I find it deeply troubling that Johnson should support Trump. Johnson's one undeniably decent and brave act as PM was to be wholeheartedly in support of Ukraine from day 1 of the Russian invasion, while EU countries were still humming and hawing (except for Poland of course) and the Biden administration was offering Zelenskyy a plane out of Kyiv (remember his remark - I need tanks, not a ride!)
Trump is totally on the other side of this - and both he and very noticeably Vance have completely swallowed the Putin koolaid. Vance's proposals for a "solution" to the conflict are outrageous and would give Putin lots of encouragement to press ahead with his imperial ambitions.
Among Harris's best lines in the debate was: "If you'd been president, Putin would be in Kyiv now".
So why is Johnson backing Trump? Oh, they are both narcissists...of course.

Remember the dangerous things he said around Coronavirus?

Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

The medical advisors had to scuttle around him to prevent people following hs advice.

he really, really thought he knew better.

David49

Trump is becoming irrational now resorting to personal insults, Vance is no better “childless cat woman” is such a ridiculous description. How on earth is the allegation about Haitians eating cats and dogs relevant to the US election. Harris was never overly popular as VP but compared to Trump, is much more credible. Having had the endorsement of Biden and Obama she should win

Money can buy you a good education but it can't make a pig's ear into a silk purse.

He behaves like a lout in an expensive suit. And his slurs against his opponents, anyone he doesn't like, and immigrants, are like those juvenile taunts of an untutored teenager with a limited vocabulary.

And he may yet become one of the most powerful men in the world.

Trump has always been irrational!!!

Trump is becoming irrational now resorting to personal insults, Vance is no better “childless cat woman” is such a ridiculous description. How on earth is the allegation about Haitians eating cats and dogs relevant to the US election. Harris was never overly popular as VP but compared to Trump, is much more credible. Having had the endorsement of Biden and Obama she should win

Wyllow3

I think Trump has many of the characteristics of a cult leader. He has a great need for adulation, to be seen as a saviour, often tied to some evangelical christian groups. Dangerous when teamed with threats of violence (as in cries of "victory or death! by Steve Bannon and his MAGA army.

Not all people who will vote for him are cult followers of course, but there is a dangerous core.

Yes, I believe there are those who are aware of his failings, but will vote for him because they like his policies - and because they dislike the Democrats. Republicans who will choose him because he's the Republican choice for POTUS.

I think Trump has many of the characteristics of a cult leader. He has a great need for adulation, to be seen as a saviour, often tied to some evangelical christian groups. Dangerous when teamed with threats of violence (as in cries of "victory or death! by Steve Bannon and his MAGA army.

Not all people who will vote for him are cult followers of course, but there is a dangerous core.

Well telling people they are stupid because they don't agree with your political view, is - well, stupid. Whatever political side you're on.

I've been called "deluded", "naive" and various other things on social media for opposing other people's views - from both Left and Right, so I understand this.

However, I am baffled by the unswerving support for Trump because he is a very unpleasant man. And I'm especially puzzled by those women who support him because of his uncouth, coarse attitude towards women he doesn't like - not to mention those women who appear to him to be easy-meat.

I don't think they are stupid - it may well be that I'm being a bit of a snowflake and taking it all too seriously. Perhaps I should accept that all's fair in love and politics which, itself, is a bit of a dirty game.

Nevertheless, the willingness of the man to cross the line, be so disrespectful - and not only to women - does make me question the mindset of his supporters.

Or class as we know it. Those oiks who wont do as they are told.
Johnson isnt a very nice man a lot of the time either yet he still managed to connect with large swathes of the population who felt unrepresented. It's almost as if telling people they are stupid etc doesnt help.

The difference is Rural v Big Cities and Education attainment.

NotSpaghetti

Someone above said there were equal votes for the Democrats and the Republicans.

Since 2008 the Democrats have won the popular vote.

www.statista.com/statistics/1035521/popular-votes-republican-democratic-parties-since-1828/

USA voting age population is over 260 million people. The vote hasn't been equal. However, considering numbers the last few elections have been somewhat evenly divided. The "problem" is their electoral college.

Hillary had more popular votes. Trump became POTUS
Gore had more popular votes. Bush became POTUS

Totally agree, Dickens, this is not about politics, or policies it is about the blatant unsuitability of this disgusting man; anyone who supports him needs to have a look deep inside themselves.

HousePlantQueen

Galaxy

I know it's really hard but people think differently to you, they may for example oppose abortion, they may loathe identity politics, they may think the gender treatment of children in America will be seen in the future as barbaric. They may be wary of a party who lied about Biden (yes I know Trump lies but it's not really a gotcha after the Democrats behaviour) they may surprisingly not want to vote for people who view them as stupid. All sorts of reasons why people may vote Trump.

Difficult though it is, I agree with you Galaxy, some people have different lines in the sand politically ie abortion rights, free trade vs state intervention, isolationist vs internationalist/NATO, and I do get that. BUT, I just could not bring myself to vote for a man who lies, cheats, steals ( from a charity), is a sexual molester etc., all the traits which we have discussed over and over.

My red line, the reason why I loathe the man is his mockery, during his previous election campaign, of the reporter with a chronic disability

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA

Truly disgusting

... and his mockery of the late John McCain, calling him a "loser". Trump doesn't like service men who were captured. He likes those who don't get captured.

It's there on various videos for anyone to see.

This from a man who avoided military draft 5 times (not uncommon among young men from influential families). A man who never saw active service, deriding one who did. Because he was captured.

I can understand people having differing views on abortion, trade, etc, but I do not understand how anyone can endorse a man who mocks service men, the disabled, makes vulgar references about women, questions the racial heritage of his political opponents and, like an ignorant and uninformed teenager, insists that immigrants eat pet cats and dogs.

It's not the policies, it's the man himself.

He is an absolute disgrace.

Oh, thats disgusting!

Galaxy

I know it's really hard but people think differently to you, they may for example oppose abortion, they may loathe identity politics, they may think the gender treatment of children in America will be seen in the future as barbaric. They may be wary of a party who lied about Biden (yes I know Trump lies but it's not really a gotcha after the Democrats behaviour) they may surprisingly not want to vote for people who view them as stupid. All sorts of reasons why people may vote Trump.

Difficult though it is, I agree with you Galaxy, some people have different lines in the sand politically ie abortion rights, free trade vs state intervention, isolationist vs internationalist/NATO, and I do get that. BUT, I just could not bring myself to vote for a man who lies, cheats, steals ( from a charity), is a sexual molester etc., all the traits which we have discussed over and over.

My red line, the reason why I loathe the man is his mockery, during his previous election campaign, of the reporter with a chronic disability

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA

Truly disgusting

Dickens

MaizieD

even so Harris is gaining support and should win comfortably

I sincerely hope you're right about this, David. UK commentators are being very cagey about predicting a Harris win.

Boris Johnson, writing for the Daily Mail back in January, is fully behind Trump.

Apparently, his return to the White House could be just what the world needs.

It appears that those who oppose Trump are part of the "global wokerati". Whatever that is.

Both Johnson and Trump have their supporters here in the UK. Which I find unsettling.

Johnson is no longer of any consequence, politically, and is noticeable in his absence on any political discussions on TV or radio. It looks to me as if the current Tory administration, such as it is, are ignoring him rather like the daft, embarrassing relative who makes a fool of himself at events.

I agree that UK based supporters of Trump are unsettling, and worrying, they do not even have the excuse of choosing to ignore his repulsive behaviour now, and in the past, because they will benefit financially (like my USA based cousin).