Election Promises

I just feel dreadfully sad that, yet again , we have a government who behave as though they have just won Euromillions and are now doing exactly what they want to do and hard cheese to the rest of us. Heartless , entitled and greedy.Beyond sad .

Casdon

Mollygo why are you measuring a promise against a shopping list of elements that haven’t been promised?
I agree. The vague words level playing field or equal opportunities sound good, but don’t actually promise anything IMO.

What do you think they mean? Is it simply the removal of private education?

I’ve spent time reading all the waffle on here about level playing fields.
I don’t believe it’s possible, so I have just pointed out what it would need to truly make it level. (Without the ability to level the parents.)
Do you believe the money acquiring strategies they are planning really make it possible to have a level playing field?
It seems a bit strange to me to promise breakfast clubs (good idea) free to all primary children, even those whose parents (like the better off pensioners) can well afford to give their children breakfast.

Cossy depending on what one of the neighbouring schools you are referring to, our boys went to one until it was bought lock stock and barrel and taken over by another private school.

We transferred them to the one next door which was co-ed, we are not what I consider to be rich and our children are for from dim

Local snobbery…

ronib

LizzieDrip but all children do not have the same start in life. There will never be a level playing field regardless of type of school.
It’s quite interesting to read comments about being rich and not very bright. We are talking about children who have years of development ahead. Children as VAT cash cows - who would have thought it?

Think you’re missing the point entirely.

Of course all children don’t start life with equal chances, that’s why great state education is essential for ALL children, in all areas.

Education is a great leveller and creates life choices.

Increasing private school education to more people will create an even larger gap between the “haves” and the “have nots”

Those in independent schools don’t necessarily have better teachers and teaching, but inevitably will have much smaller classes, better facilities and better opportunities.

I’d like us to move away from the “old boy network”

We have some extremely good independent schools close to us, one of which is from 4-16 and is known as the “rich but dim” school, as we still have grammar schools which have a good percentage of the other independent and one prep school 11+ passes, though by no means the majority. A very large percentage of our grammar students now have intensive coaching.

I’d love to see a return to countrywide grammars, with ALL children routinely sitting the 11+ and 13+ as part of their mainstream schooling, and sat in their own schools.

Then I’d like more vocational schools, good comprehensive schools and a wide range of secondary choices to suit each child.

I went to Secondary Education for one academic year, in California. Mixed aged classes, similar ability, and summer school for all those not making good progress. It was a good model, with mandatory PE classes every day and early classes, so all finished school at 2:30pm

Mollygo why are you measuring a promise against a shopping list of elements that haven’t been promised? That’s like saying you promised me breakfast but I won’t accept that even though I’m hungry, because I expect you to provide me with three meals a day and a glass of wine every evening.
I’m sure every part of the public sector has similar shopping lists, which of course you’d expect - but measuring against things which haven’t been promised and some of which cost large sums of money, and aren’t even under the direct control of the government anyway is a guarantee for failure. Bring on the realism.

All children won't take up, I'm pretty sure, for precisely the reasons given by people who appear to think they are a minority.

Most parents who can be at home, and have breakfast with their children, will choose to.

I’m looking forward to seeing a level playing field for all children.
That means providing all schools
with sufficient qualified and specialist staff to meet the needs of all children, and
all schools with sufficient up-to-date equipment for all the children,
and all schools with sufficient suitable outdoor area to cater for the the curriculum, whether that be sport or the EYFS.
That’s what I’ll be measuring this promise against.

Together with that, the promise that all primary children will be entitled to a free breakfast at breakfast club.

I spent last evening consulting with staff from various schools from the NorthWest, the midlands and the south to see what arrangements they have in place, either for preschool, which includes breakfast or simply breakfast clubs. The list is obviously not comprehensive or exclusive.

The most common breakfast clubs cater from 8am until school starts. Preschool clubs seem to start at 7.30, though one started at 7.00.

Most concerns were about resourcing the breakfast club,
e.g. equipment, e.g.cooking equipment or fridges, foodstuff, storage and staffing and, if all children took it up, where would they eat it, who would be responsible for clearing up afterwards.

Schools with preschool had the same concerns but also wanted to know what element of preschool funding will be covered by the “breakfast club” element.

i.e. Will parents who bring their children at 7.30am have to pay for the time not covered by the breakfast club?

Some schools mentioned the additional cost of heating and lighting and fuel costs involved in running a breakfast club if the majority of children took up the offer.

LizzieDrip

That’s your opinion ronib. I disagree. For me, a fair society creates a level playing field for all children. A good state school system for all is what I expect of this government.

Those who chose to educate their children elsewhere have that right … but their money should not buy their children privilege above others. All children deserve the same opportunities in life.

Removing the tax exemption on private schools (which are businesses) IMO is one of the very best things this new government has done.

A good state schools system is far better than a private school any day IMO.

👏👏👏

ronib

LizzieDrip I think it’s morally wrong to put Vat on school fees unless parents are reimbursed for not taking up a State funded place.
I think a fair society would make good private schools available to a much wider range of people not narrow it even further to the millionaire classes.

Some of us think it’s morally wrong to “buy” ones children educational advantages!

Independent schools are businesses and should be treated as such!

Parents made their choice, just as people make choices not to use the NHS or local services, should they get “refunds” of their NI and Council Tax?

ronib

Cossy you don’t seem to be very well informed on this subject.

Sorry?? Which subject??

Honestly, could you be any more patronising?

If you mean members and Labour Party MPs and PMs sending their children to Independent Schools? I do think it’s gross hypocrisy!

As you’ll be well aware when Starmer first started at his Secondary School it was a state school, it became Independent just before he entered the 6th Form, it’s my understanding that he was never charged fees, but I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m mistaken.

I was never a big fan of Blair!

Children's intelligence can be a level playing field, regardless of their circumstances.
Thankfully.

That's why every child should have the best chance it's possible to give them.

LizzieDrip but all children do not have the same start in life. There will never be a level playing field regardless of type of school.
It’s quite interesting to read comments about being rich and not very bright. We are talking about children who have years of development ahead. Children as VAT cash cows - who would have thought it?

👍

That’s your opinion ronib. I disagree. For me, a fair society creates a level playing field for all children. A good state school system for all is what I expect of this government.

Those who chose to educate their children elsewhere have that right … but their money should not buy their children privilege above others. All children deserve the same opportunities in life.

Removing the tax exemption on private schools (which are businesses) IMO is one of the very best things this new government has done.

A good state schools system is far better than a private school any day IMO.

Private schools are of course businesses. The 20% VAT on school fees is a pain for them, but it's do-able. At DGCs' school, for example, they are throwing around £200k a term at it until the new academic year. This means parents will be getting a discount of more than 10% on the new school fees because the school will swallow the increase.
Interestingly, some usually oversubscribed independent schools are now opening up a new year class in Year 7 where many pupils have previously been turned away on entrance exams. This means that private schools will now be taking in more average and poor ability rich pupils who might otherwise have ended up in the state sector. So it's a bit of a win-win for the government.

LizzieDrip parents will find it difficult to pay an extra 20 percent in January and that’s the truth of the matter.

LizzieDrip I think it’s morally wrong to put Vat on school fees unless parents are reimbursed for not taking up a State funded place.
I think a fair society would make good private schools available to a much wider range of people not narrow it even further to the millionaire classes.

My horror is reserved for anyone who wants to do the very best for their own children but will find it even more difficult now- thanks to the political posturing of Starmer

ronib I don’t follow your rationale here. Why will it now be more difficult for anyone who wants to do the very best for their children?

I remember the horror when there were boundary changes in the area where I live and there was real fear that children from a notorious housing estate would be able to attend the local comprehensive rather than the sink school in the nearby suburb. Suddenly grant-maintained schools were approved, having been regarded as the devil's work previously, and some middle class but terribly left-wing (clinging on to student politics) parents were talking seriously about private education, and using their parents' savings they had thoughtfully stashed away in offshore accounts so they wouldn't have to pay for social care when the time came, for them. They didn't believe in private education, obviously, in rather the way Shirley Williams, the Rev. David Shepherd, the Blairs and the Cleggs all didn't believe in it either, but their children were too delicate to survive in state schools and they would just have to swallow their principles for the sake of their offspring. In the same way they justified private health care( on my husband's insurance, I've missed two holidays already this year and I'm not missing the third ).
All the examples I quote are absolutely true.
It is the hypocrisy that galls; the public stating of left-wing principles but the seizing of unfair opportunities immediately when the chance occurs. Starmer has claimed enough to cover the cost of the mythical wallpaper several times over, and that is only the 'donations' we know about, all for personal use. I don't expect him to solve problems within the first months of government. I did expect him to be honest and above board, and every day reveals how duplicitous he is.

ronib KS attended a state grammar school which became a fee paying whilst he was a pupil there, meaning his parents did not have to pay fees. I’m sure you know this, but have decided not to mention it.

He did his 1st degree at Leeds University (as did my daughter, from a very working class background) and went on to do his further degree at Oxbridge.

Give them a chance for goodness sake.They’ve been in office a very short time and are having the right wing media screaming for their blood.They are already way better than the previous corrupt Tories. They were in office for fourteen years and ruined this country with their mismanagement,lies and deceit.It strikes me some people have very short memories.

Cossy you don’t seem to be very well informed on this subject.

Cossywell okay so from January vat will be paid. Happy? 6500 teachers coming up ….. you think?
What is a hedge finder?
So you don’t have snobs in State schools? That’s a new one on me.
Why should education not be about climbing the social ladder ? Don’t you want to follow the heroes of the Labour Party? Tony Blair and Keir Starmer? That’s social mobility in action - both from private schools.
Very bright but poor children won’t have the same opportunities now and that’s sad.

ronib

LizzieDrip nope wrong again. My horror is reserved for the self entitled very wealthy left wing who take up State school places and push for Oxbridge.
My horror is reserved for anyone who wants to do the very best for their own children but will find it even more difficult now- thanks to the political posturing of Starmer. So much for freedom- you can whistle for that.

Just out of interest, how many “normal” families have the freedom to make “choices” between state schools or independent education?

Given the national average salary is around £36,000, and the average annual fees for secondary private education is around £21,000 for day pupils and just under £40,000 for boarders (without uniform and extras) I would suggest very few!

ronib

LizzieDrip nope wrong again. My horror is reserved for the self entitled very wealthy left wing who take up State school places and push for Oxbridge.
My horror is reserved for anyone who wants to do the very best for their own children but will find it even more difficult now- thanks to the political posturing of Starmer. So much for freedom- you can whistle for that.

Why should they not attend state schools and push for Oxbridge? What’s wrong with that?