But does he really 'understand'?

growstuff to anyone on a low income, whether that be pension, benefits or salary £200 is a lot of money.

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

Maybe if people got their facts right and didn't use childish insults, he (and I - not that I matter) would have a better understanding.

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

But but but the idea that there will be millions of freezing pensioners is a myth. Moreover, if anybody (not just pensioners) can't afford to have heating £200 wouldn't have made a huge difference.

That’s your right LizzieDrip.
I’m sure you afford others the same right to criticise as things happen, just as they did during the previous government.
But I’m glad you’re commenting on things a previous government got wrong. When I do that about the actions of the previous Labour government which impact us now I am criticised for that.

IF, at the end of Labour’s time in office …

*this country is in a worse economic state;
*the public sector is in an even more dire state;
*the PM has illegally closed down parliament for fear of losing a vote, and lied to the king;
*corruption on a huge scale by the government is uncovered (I’m talking £billions of useless contracts to mates, not legally declared donations)
*the PM has ridden roughshod over parliamentary rules and procedures …

THEN the Labour Party will, quite rightly, not win the next election, and I will criticise KS.

Until then, I’ll wait and see.

MissAdventure

I can't see how he couldn't understand.
He's not a stupid man, and I hesitate to say it, but his upbringing wasn't one of luxury. (That's me saying that, not Starmer, by the way)

He will surely have something up his sleeve to help those who most need it.
Need that is, not want.

Well you'd hope so, but I really don't understand why they wouldn't say "don't worry, we aren't going to let it be a cliff face for people a few pounds over PC level, they won't be abandoned" There's been so much unrest, conference voted for the withdrawal to be stopped (yes I know that's a non binding vote) that surely if there were to be mitigations now is the time to tell us they exist, not in another month when it's been allowed to fester some more?

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

Maybe he listened to people on here that queried why they were being given a payment that they didn’t need? As an aside can I just point out to everyone constantly criticising Labour that it isn’t actually their fault that the Conservatives made themselves totally unelectable ( and still are…).

I can't see how he couldn't understand.
He's not a stupid man, and I hesitate to say it, but his upbringing wasn't one of luxury. (That's me saying that, not Starmer, by the way)

He will surely have something up his sleeve to help those who most need it.
Need that is, not want.

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

Freya5

MayBee70

keepingquiet

When you know every single thing is being read and interpreted by others seeking to catch you out, is it any wonder there might be some 'filling' before giving your answer. Seems even a momentary silence can be damning.
Give the man a break.

I honestly can’t believe that, clicking onto gransnet there is yet another thread criticising the PM. And I’m sure that, as I write this, someone somewhere is thinking up another one.

Not unusual, believe you on the left were always happy to criticise other PMs . That's OK though I suppose. At least they didn't lose their street cred quite as quickly as this one.

The lettuce did.

Freya5

MayBee70

keepingquiet

When you know every single thing is being read and interpreted by others seeking to catch you out, is it any wonder there might be some 'filling' before giving your answer. Seems even a momentary silence can be damning.
Give the man a break.

I honestly can’t believe that, clicking onto gransnet there is yet another thread criticising the PM. And I’m sure that, as I write this, someone somewhere is thinking up another one.

Not unusual, believe you on the left were always happy to criticise other PMs . That's OK though I suppose. At least they didn't lose their street cred quite as quickly as this one.

I have pointed out many times that I am left of centre and was never a Corbynite. I have also pointed out that I have always made a point of writing to politicians if I think they have done something that’s good for the country. Even more so if it’s a Conservative MP that has been brave enough to go against the whip. I will always give praise where praise is due. But I haven’t found anything about most of the recent Conservative PM’s to praise and probably only praised their MP’s when they were brave enough to stand up to Johnson* and then Truss.
*and look how the party treated them

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

Ah, well... any road up...

MissAdventure

Justified criticism is all well and good.
Criticism for things that have not even been done yet is a bit too far.

Just as people defend Harry and meghan sometimes, when people are being critical of ridiculous things.

That's my POV, MissA.

I don't defend the LP slavishly - I am not a member and if I were I would still criticise what I saw as wrong. It's not criticism that bothers me it's vitriol and sniping, particularly when the criticism is not of things that have actually happened (eg scrapping the CT discount or removing bus passes) and when it descends into insults, (eg 'he is a nasty pasty and doesn't deserve to be PM😛').

MayBee70

keepingquiet

When you know every single thing is being read and interpreted by others seeking to catch you out, is it any wonder there might be some 'filling' before giving your answer. Seems even a momentary silence can be damning.
Give the man a break.

I honestly can’t believe that, clicking onto gransnet there is yet another thread criticising the PM. And I’m sure that, as I write this, someone somewhere is thinking up another one.

Not unusual, believe you on the left were always happy to criticise other PMs . That's OK though I suppose. At least they didn't lose their street cred quite as quickly as this one.

Oreo

Doodledog

I am also on here less than usual, as it's so toxic.

But it isn’t toxic IMO 😄
It’s just airing of differing views. If you or anyone else can’t bear seeing criticism of the Labour government or PM then probably best I agree to not look at the political threads as much.
Tbf to Conservative posters, they have had to put up with a lot of criticism of their Party, some of which they will have agreed with and some not, but they had to take it on the chin.Now it’s Labour’s turn in the hot seat and it may make you uncomfortable but you have now to take it on the chin too.

Presumably that includes you, as you've claimed to be a Labour voter.

I'm so grateful, I'm not usually a Labour voter and have never voted Conservative. It's quite amusing watching people take chunks out of each other.

Justified criticism is all well and good.
Criticism for things that have not even been done yet is a bit too far.

Just as people defend Harry and meghan sometimes, when people are being critical of ridiculous things.

Doodledog

I am also on here less than usual, as it's so toxic.

But it isn’t toxic IMO 😄
It’s just airing of differing views. If you or anyone else can’t bear seeing criticism of the Labour government or PM then probably best I agree to not look at the political threads as much.
Tbf to Conservative posters, they have had to put up with a lot of criticism of their Party, some of which they will have agreed with and some not, but they had to take it on the chin.Now it’s Labour’s turn in the hot seat and it may make you uncomfortable but you have now to take it on the chin too.

Thank you Casdon 👍

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-sM-t1KI_Y
You misunderstood what I was saying Mollygo. It is only realistic to accept that Labour will be in power for the next five years, too. I don’t mind you calling me toxic though, I’ve got broad shoulders fortunately.

GG13 you have a cool head, I know you’ve always been honest about your feelings, and I agree, it’s in nobody’s interests for any government to fail.

I dont really understand why people get so upset about criticism of labour, I am a labour party member and it doesnt upset me at all. It is part of the price of power. There was constant criticism of the Tory government, I agreed with much of it. Of course people will criticise Starmer, I do frequently, if you agree with the criticism you say so, if you dont you fight your corner.

GrannyGravy13

N & P threads have always been toxic

It’s just now the poison is directed towards a Labour Government as opposed to the Conservatives.

Those used to opposing are now the opposed.

I am not a Labour supporter, but I want them to succeed and make decisions that will benefit society not penalise it.

That about sums it up GG13.

Toxicity includes labelling all those who criticise what they’ve seen so far as ranters or unrealistic, but I doubt they will see themselves as toxic.

Casdon

Raging against the dying of the Tory light of the last 14 years is cathartic I suspect. Labour will be in power for the next five years, and people will either like them or lump them. It’s up to us individually whether we want to be a ranter or to be realistic about that.

I am not a Labour supporter but I do not want them to fail.

If the Government of the day fails, we all fail in some way or another.

Raging against the dying of the Tory light of the last 14 years is cathartic I suspect. Labour will be in power for the next five years, and people will either like them or lump them. It’s up to us individually whether we want to be a ranter or to be realistic about that.

lixy

eggplant

God it's especially vile on here today.

Memo to self......change morning routine.

This has been going round in my head all day on and off.
If I joined a social group and heard discussions such as those on several of the politics threads I wouldn’t go back for a second meeting. And so I have decided to opt out of Gnet discussions.
I do hope you will think positively and ‘give the man a break’ while he gets to grips with a very demanding job, and I really hope he lives up to my expectations.

I think a lot of people feel like you because they were pinning their hopes on new party, new PM and a bright new future.

It isn’t panning out like that though is it? I personally do not know a single person who has a positive word to say about Keir Starmer, Rachel Reeves, Angela Rayner and co.

It is normal to be disappointed when things go the wrong way.