Sir Keir Starmer ate my Hamster…..

I've known parents who are desperate for their child to be in mainstream schools, and others who preferred their child's special needs to be accounted for, as mainstream schools were too difficult for their child to cope with.

They were children who had been assessed, properly, and had difficulties.

MaizieD the same could be said for small struggling private schools - but it’s still going ahead. 17.04 comment

MaizieD

ronib

So looking forward to vat on private tuition?

I doubt if many private tutors earn enough for their takings to be subject to VAT.

I am off to Google whether or not tutoring companies charge VAT, they appear to be springing up all over the place here in the S E.

GrannyGravy13

I will say it again, Starmer fan grans really need to grow thicker skins.

I have always voted Conservative (wouldn’t if Liz Truss was in charge) Tory voters and my party have been vilified since GNs inception.

I am not a blind follower criticised when I thought they were wrong, and sucked up all the jibes some were at times very personal (to MPs, and GN members who owned up to being a blue), it’s par for the course.

Your man wanted and got the top job and he and you will just have to accept that everything he does and says will be under micro scrutiny, and rightly so.

If you are finding it uncomfortable, well gird your loins only another four years and nine months until the next election…

Exactly.

ronib

So looking forward to vat on private tuition?

I doubt if many private tutors earn enough for their takings to be subject to VAT.

There are about 5% of children who have very obvious learning difficulties or physical disabilities, which without any doubt require special provision.

I seem to recall that 'special needs' children with physical difficulties were, in the past, sometimes effectively ghettoised into 'special schools' for those with the same disability without any regard to their actual ability. It was pressure from parents who wanted their children educated in mainstream, not siphoned off into 'special' schools, which brought about an influx of special needs children into mainstream.

Which was not intrinsically a bad thing, as many children with disabilities such as vision or hearing impairment, or limited mobility, are well able enough to learn in mainstream with adjustments made to accommodate their disability. It was just taken, IMO, a bit too far. Especially with Warnok's fatuous pronouncement.

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but it almost sounds as though you might support 'resegregation' of children with physical disabilities

So looking forward to vat on private tuition?

ronib

Mamie In your opinion ……

My informed opinion Ronib. Many years as a SENCO and many more as an adviser working in dozens of special schools in state and independent schools.
And you?

ronib

Mamie In your opinion ……

I have to say that I agree with Mamie's 'opinion'. She has made sensible posts from a position of knowledge.

I don't think you at all well informed.

Mamie In your opinion ……

I quite agree Cossy and frankly some of these ill-informed comments on the quality of provision for children with special needs in mainstream and special schools are downright insulting.
The sector is struggling because of poor funding by previous governments, but the "private good state bad" comments could only be made by people with no understanding whatsoever.

Every child in this country deserves an education in which they can fulfil their true potential. If state education was properly funded there would be no need for private tuition or private schools.

ronib

So the same argument applies to parents who pay for extra tuition to cram their children for top selective grammar type schools. And then get 7 years of free good quality education. Mostly from the monied professional classes….Cossy why can’t you see it?

Don’t remind people, that will be the next VAT target.

Or those who are wealthy enough to move to an area because of the excellent state school.

So the same argument applies to parents who pay for extra tuition to cram their children for top selective grammar type schools. And then get 7 years of free good quality education. Mostly from the monied professional classes….Cossy why can’t you see it?

Cossy

Honestly, some of the things on here re children with additional needs are priceless.

Why, why can’t some of you simply admit that Independent Schools are a business, a privilege, an attempt to “buy” a better chance for one’s child. A good chance is deserved for every single child, not just those with wealthier parents.

Many children with additional needs receive great support in state schools, both prior to and after assessments.

More funding and more support is required for all schools and all children.

Excellent post!

Honestly, some of the things on here re children with additional needs are priceless.

Why, why can’t some of you simply admit that Independent Schools are a business, a privilege, an attempt to “buy” a better chance for one’s child. A good chance is deserved for every single child, not just those with wealthier parents.

Many children with additional needs receive great support in state schools, both prior to and after assessments.

More funding and more support is required for all schools and all children.

Starmer has explained about his attending football matches, he
was asked to sit in the boxes because of security

Such a caring and sharing society we have become - not.

ronib

Growstreet schools and educational psychologists assess special needs? Not parents. Probably parents flag up difficulties but that’s a different story. Parents probably pay for private education when there’s poor support for special needs. Simple.

No, they don't. Not all pupils with a special needs label have been assessed by an educational psychologist - in fact, most haven't been and are still on a waiting list.

Parents sometimes pay for private education because they prefer their children to have a special needs label rather than another one, which might reflect badly on them. Some state schools have excellent special needs provision; some not - and some of the ones without good provision don't provide it deliberately because they don't want to attract special needs pupils because they're time-consuming and expensive on resources.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

ronib

Dr Watson. Please don’t forget pupils with special needs in private education but without an exemption for paying VAT.
Or don’t they count?

Children’s clothing and footwear are VAT free, their schooling should be also.

They're perfectly free to accept VAT free schooling.

Choice?

Children should not be made into VAT cash cows for any government.

Exactly! Parents have the choice - but there's no reason why they should be subsidised.

It could be argued that parents who send their children to fee paying schools and/or use private healthcare are subsidising those using state schools and the NHS.

Along with in all,probability paying higher rates of tax.

Works both ways growstuff

DrWatson

For Cossy, you may dispute headlines (& TV Bulletins - more important) about Football tickets (actually VIP boxes), clothes and now school fees, but if you'd like to dispute Labour swiftly alienating millions of voters who got them into power, please do?

The Trades Unions weren't that happy with them either.
It's not just disgruntled pensioners.

Unions have won a non-binding vote at the Labour Party conference calling on the government to reverse its cuts to winter fuel payments.

The vote had originally been expected on Monday and threatened to overshadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves' speech.

However, in a move the Unite union labelled an "outrage" the vote was shifted to the last day of the conference, when many delegates had left the conference.

I believe Starmer had left by then. Coincidence or not?

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

ronib

Dr Watson. Please don’t forget pupils with special needs in private education but without an exemption for paying VAT.
Or don’t they count?

Children’s clothing and footwear are VAT free, their schooling should be also.

They're perfectly free to accept VAT free schooling.

Choice?

Children should not be made into VAT cash cows for any government.

Exactly! Parents have the choice - but there's no reason why they should be subsidised.

Growstreet schools and educational psychologists assess special needs? Not parents. Probably parents flag up difficulties but that’s a different story. Parents probably pay for private education when there’s poor support for special needs. Simple.

MissAdventure

They count just the same as any other child in the country.
No more, no less.

No, they don't - not when they haven't been diagnosed.

According to the government, 18% of pupils in England have special needs. There are about 5% of children who have very obvious learning difficulties or physical disabilities, which without any doubt require special provision. Many of the other 13% are in a grey area. They'll be on some kind of spectrum of need and it's not uncommon for parents to think their own children need more special provision than others. I do not accept that all of the remaining 13% need to go to a private school. If the parents think that throwing money at the problem will always solve it, IMO they're deluded. (I speak from having observed it at first hand.)