Anniversary of Israeli massacre

Fleurpepper,
Exactly so. Is just down to greed and ambition, religion is simply used to manipulate the masses and muddy the waters with regard to what is really going on.

Anniebach

But it has everything to do with religion

I don't believe so. It is about power and control, land and money.

We tend to reserve our blame for governments, not ordinary people, whatever religion they are.

Oreo

We’re always to blame, for everything apparently.

Not at all- as huge numbers of Jews totally do not support Netanyahu, nor this 'war' which many jews acknowledge as a genocide, the desire to destroy Palestine and Palestinians, not just Hamas. How can they be to blame?

Yet there are apparently peace talks being proposed in Cairo. Sounds impossible but maybe Netanyahu is squeezing in an attack on Iran and demolishing Northern Gaza before getting round the table.
Let’s hope so for everyone’s sake 🥺

I think it's a combination of religion and attempts to gain geopolitical power in the whole region - with the interests of big players like the US all in the mix.

There is a running commentary on events on BBC I player
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn4v67j88e0t

Jeremy Bowen summarised the strikes including comment by US/UK and a note on Gaza at the end.

"The Israeli strikes were expected. Since Iran’s ballistic missile attack on 1 October Israel had said they were coming. The question now is whether Iran will respond.

President Biden had told Israel not to hit Iran’s nuclear, oil and gas installations. Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on this occasion has taken his advice.

The Americans hope that only attacking military targets might persuade Iran not to launch another round of strikes at Israel.
It’s hard to stop successive rounds of strikes and counter strikes when the countries concerned believe they will be seen as weak, and deterred, if they don’t respond. That is how wars escalate and get worse.

On 1 October Iran was hitting back after Israel’s attacks on its allies – especially Hezbollah in Lebanon. Now Israel says it’s responding to months of continuous attacks from Iran – not just the ballistic missiles, but also from Iran’s allies and proxies.

Israel is also carrying out a major offensive in northern Gaza. The UN human rights chief Volker Turk has called it the darkest moment of Gaza’s war – with the Israeli military subjecting an entire population to bombing, siege and the risk of starvation.

It’s impossible for an outsider to know whether the timing of Israel’s attacks on Iran was designed to draw international attention away from northern Gaza. But it might have been part of the calculation.'

I’ve just turned on SkyNews to discover that Israel have hit Iran overnight. Not sure of any details yet. It must be in retaliation for Iran bombing Israel a couple of weeks ago.

But it has everything to do with religion

Babs03

Sorry just to add, this is why we should only ever refer to those involved with Netanyahu and the Israeli government as Israelis not Jews.
What is happening is geopolitical, nothing to do with religion.

Hear, hear.

Oreo

We’re always to blame, for everything apparently.

Twas ever thus.
And it is so very wrong.

Sorry just to add, this is why we should only ever refer to those involved with Netanyahu and the Israeli government as Israelis not Jews.
What is happening is geopolitical, nothing to do with religion.

I think this is why it is wrong to conflate the Jewish people with Israeli politics. There are countless Jewish people living in other countries around the world where some have lived for centuries, they don’t have family in a Israel or follow Israeli politics, though like the rest of us they probably do now. And indeed conflating the two has given rise to antisemitism.

Yes hugely divided

Anniebach

Quote Babs03 Fri 25-Oct-24 18:32:10
Of course Trump is an anti-semite, even though he has a Jewish SiL, makes no odds, is like the racist who tries to escape the label by saying he has a black friend. The fact is he was and probably still is a pal of Bannon who is a holocaust denier and has said the most awful things about the Jewish people.

‘The racist who tries to escape the label by saying he has a black friend ‘ !

Really and those who speak of their Jewish friends ?

Absolutely NO comparison whatsoever. Jewish peopple, both in Israel and over the world, are hugely divided about Netanyahu and this so called war, and many do oppose ti strongly and call it a genocide.

Yes I agree , thank you

Anniebach

Quote Babs03 Fri 25-Oct-24 18:32:10
Of course Trump is an anti-semite, even though he has a Jewish SiL, makes no odds, is like the racist who tries to escape the label by saying he has a black friend. The fact is he was and probably still is a pal of Bannon who is a holocaust denier and has said the most awful things about the Jewish people.

‘The racist who tries to escape the label by saying he has a black friend ‘ !

Really and those who speak of their Jewish friends ?

Well it could happen like that too Annie, but I think anyone mentioning on here that they have Jewish friends would instead by trying to bolster an opinion or point rather than avoiding being labelled anti-semitic. As in 'I have many Jewish friends so I know what I am talking about with regard to......'
I don't have many Jewish friends so will make my points without mentioning this.

Quote Babs03 Fri 25-Oct-24 18:32:10
Of course Trump is an anti-semite, even though he has a Jewish SiL, makes no odds, is like the racist who tries to escape the label by saying he has a black friend. The fact is he was and probably still is a pal of Bannon who is a holocaust denier and has said the most awful things about the Jewish people.

‘The racist who tries to escape the label by saying he has a black friend ‘ !

Really and those who speak of their Jewish friends ?

Of course Trump is an anti-semite, even though he has a Jewish SiL, makes no odds, is like the racist who tries to escape the label by saying he has a black friend. The fact is he was and probably still is a pal of Bannon who is a holocaust denier and has said the most awful things about the Jewish people.
But I imagine, that said, that he will get along just fine with Netanyahu - the strong man syndrome attracts neanderthals like Trump, he feels the same way about Putin - but his ideas on what should happen to Gaza might differ from Netanyahus, perhaps he wants to build one of his golf courses there and several hotels. The man is crazy enough to suggest this.

Wyllow3

Not so long ago Trump heavily criticised the US Jewish Citizens who didn't agree with his version of "sorting" the situation. (permanent occupation Gaza). In fact he went further and accused them as follows:

Donald Trump says Jews will be partly to blame if he loses election

www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-says-jews-will-be-partly-blame-if-he-loses-election-2024-09-20/

Anyone but himself.

Wyllow3

Not so long ago Trump heavily criticised the US Jewish Citizens who didn't agree with his version of "sorting" the situation. (permanent occupation Gaza). In fact he went further and accused them as follows:

Donald Trump says Jews will be partly to blame if he loses election

www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-says-jews-will-be-partly-blame-if-he-loses-election-2024-09-20/

The man is out of his mind - crazed by his own ego. He has to win - at all cost. His self-conceit demands it.

He doesn't have the intellectual capacity to question why Jewish Americans might favour Harris - assuming the poll / survey is correct.

... nor the comprehension to understand that in pre-emptively accusing them of voting for the enemy, he is giving a signal to the less well-balanced of his supporters - the kind who sport "Trump or Death" placards on their property - an excuse to rampage if he doesn't win.

Trump has a history of associating with anti-Semites - and acknowledging anti-Semitic tropes.

He has no experience of either political or military service, yet is critical of both institutions. He's a wheeler-dealer businessman, and he should have stayed in commerce.

We’re always to blame, for everything apparently.

Not so long ago Trump heavily criticised the US Jewish Citizens who didn't agree with his version of "sorting" the situation. (permanent occupation Gaza). In fact he went further and accused them as follows:

Donald Trump says Jews will be partly to blame if he loses election

www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-says-jews-will-be-partly-blame-if-he-loses-election-2024-09-20/

It’s a fair bet Trump would support Israel and continue in the Middle East, Ukraine is another matter it sounds like he thinks it is Europe's problem not his.

Realistically what is up for discussion are the details of what the US and other countries are prepared to back as regards different Israeli government choices and tactics as regards Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, and the fate of the Palestinian people.

Babs03

@David so pointing out that the US has bought off many countries in the ME means that a poster thinks Iran should do this instead?
How does that work?
Is the same as accusing someone of supporting terrorism because a person is against Netanyahus war plan in Gaza.
I imagine one can be against the empire building propensities of the US in the ME and against Iran.

No, I really think that one cannot.
It’s naive in the extreme to think that if the US were to pull out of ‘interference’ in the ME then all would be sweetness and light from Iran.They’d be delighted of course but that’s another story.