Anniversary of Israeli massacre

These are the people who went to the rally calling for "Conquer, Kick out and Resettle". This list was taken from a report in The Jerusalem Post, which I post a link to below.

"Ministers who spoke at the rally included National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir (Otzma Yehudit), Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich (RZP), Women’s Advancement Minister and Social Equality Minister May Golan (Likud), and Development of the Negev and Galilee Minister Yitzhak Wasserlauf (Otzma Yehudit).MKs who attended the rally included Ariel Kallner, Avihai Boaron, Osher Shekalim, Tally Gotliv, and Sasson Guetta from the Likud; Zvi Sukkot from the Religious Zionist Party; and Limor Son Har-Melech from Otzma Yehudit.
www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-825512

fwiw Israel Hayom, which is the most widely read newspaper in Israel is a free publication supported by adverts, a bit like Metro.

No individuals just those who tend to accuse anyone with a differing opinion of being pro terrorist. Which is a really horrible thing to say unless someone openly declares their support of Hamas etc.
Am not getting into an argy bargy with anyone in particular just putting it out there.

Who are you addressing ?

I don’t expect anyone to be swayed by Israel bashing propaganda and have throughout my replies given links to the BBC, Channel 4 news, and the Jerusalem Post as well as Haaretz.
All I am saying is don’t dismiss others opinions on Netanyahu and the war in Gaza with the knee jerk reaction of calling posters apologists for terrorists etc. we can’t just have an echo chamber where everyone has the same opinion and just congratulates each other for this.
I had strong anti war opinions on the war in Iraq, I marched against it and said from the start quite publicly that the WMD malarkey was a pack of lies. But nobody back then said I was supporting terrorism by doing this or supporting the despot Saddam.
And of course I was doing neither.
A debate includes the voices of those you may find annoying and even pompous, but hurling offensive accusations reflects worse upon those doing this than the speaker.
We need balance not bias.

You’re quite correct Maddyfour as Haaretz is well known for its left wing contributors which of course means a lot of criticism and negativity about the present right wing government ( which we have to remember were voted for, Israel is the only democracy in that region.)
To counterbalance, a person needs to read a lot of Jewish newspapers.

List of newspapers in Israel

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Israel

Is one small US association from Southern New Jersey in the USA the "correct" arbiter/judgment on Haaretz?

I have just read a number of other sources that don't have the same POV on Haaretz at all, although Haaretz is left/liberal.

Maybe if you visit the newspaper from time to time yourself you can make your mind up?

The Jerusalem Post is also available online.

The BBC Web site have a daily ongoing newsfeed hour on hour www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer just check under news then Israel-Gaza

I had never heard of this often cited publication named Haaretz and so I decided to look it up. It didn’t take long to discover that according to the Jewish Federation, Jewish Community Relations Council, New Jersey it is a left wing paper, which often looks to criticising Israel. It says the top Israeli News Sources in English that are read in Israel and abroad are 1) The Times of Israel 2) The Jerusalem Post 3) Ynetnews.com 4) Israel Hayom 5) Haaretz and 6) i24NEWS.

It says of Haaretz (I’m quoting)
‘While it likes to be perceived as Israel’s paper of record in the same way as the New York Times, the reality is that the left wing Haaretz has an extremely small circulation compared to it’s Hebrew language rivals. The English edition however, is a different matter.’

Also: ‘Haaretz does have some undeniably high quality writing once you get beyond sometimes hyper-critical and negative coverage that all too often serves as source material for those looking to bash Israel.’

So there we have it; Haaretz is a newspaper, mainly read in English outside Israel, which is hyper-critical and negative that all to often serves as source material for those looking to bash Israel It’s apparently not widely read inside Israel, but is widely read outside Israel by English speakers.

I won’t be taking notice of anymore links quoting Haaretz then, and will watch and listen to news reports on a variety of media, to form my own opinions. In particular the BBC1 and BBC2 documentaries which focused on the massacre on 07/10/23 and used actual footage taken from victims phones and dead and captured terrorists phones, plus the Channel4 documentary which focused on the suffering taking place in Gaza, filmed in Gaza by four people living through this terror.

I will not be swayed by Israel bashing propaganda links on here that wish to inform my views.

To describe anyone who has a different opinion on the war in Gaza as apologists for Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/Houthis is an attempt to close down the debate. A person can be against these terrorist organisations and Iran as well as believe Netanyahu has now gone way too far and a ceasefire needs to be put in place. It isn’t a case of ‘either/or’.
Nobody can say that what happened on Oct 7th was anything other than an abomination, I saw the documentaries as am sure others did, it was brutal and bloody and nothing can ever justify that. And to have to keep saying this and reiterating my position on Hamas/Hezbollah etc is now annoying. Other opinions should be debated and not just dismissed as being apologists for terrorists, quite frankly I find it offensive as do other posters who have since left the thread.

For those Hamas and Hezbollah apologists. the civilian casualties are entirely their responsibility. They deliberately embed themselves amongst the civilian population and hide weapons in hospitals, mosques and schools. Hamas only needed to release the hostages to stop the conflict but the civilian population in Gaza is completely irrelevant to them as it is in Lebanon for Hezbollah. Does Putin warn the civilian population in Ukraine to leave their homes before bombing them indiscriminately? Does Assad warn the civilians in Syria or do the Houthis in Yemen? Please can someone tell me which army in any conflict has taken so much care on earning civilians to get out of the way of a targeted strike? Bombing Dresden was indiscriminate as was the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Israel never wanted this war. How would any other country have reacted after the events of Oct 7th?

Lebanon has Hezbollah in it like dry rot.

I wasn’t taking part in a contest

Anniebach

There was much celebration when a the body of a young Israeli
hostage was driven through Gaza

Annie this isn't a contest, I believe Oreo that not all Israelis supported this disraceful behaviour, and I also believe that not all Palestinians support Hamas, or celebrated when the body of a hostage was driven through Gaza.
Not all people are fundamentally bad, there are many on both sides who oppose the loss of life to innocent Isrealis and innocent Palestinians.

There was much celebration when a the body of a young Israeli
hostage was driven through Gaza

Actually the police were keeping the peace between the right wing group and moderate Israelis who strongly disagree with them.

Babs03
Those extreme right wing citizens were a tiny proportion of the population. There are always those who are militant about occupying more land, whether it’s in the West Bank or Gaza.
Most Israelis don’t want anything to do with it.

I am wary of some links

It was on the Israeli side near the Gaza border, Channel 4 managed to gain footage of it as did many other news channels.
And as you could see from the link this actually happened, unless you doubt the reporting of Haaretz.

Problem is, journalists are not allowed in Gaza so who filmed ?

foxie48

Netanyahu attracts attention because he is the PM of Israel. All of us who follow Israeli politics know he is currently a puppet of the extreme right who do not want the war to end because for them the war is about occupation and Netanyahu doesn't want the war to end because it is keeping him in power and out of jail. Quid pro quo!

"There was a Sukkot-themed gathering near the Gaza border, settlers and far-right leaders outlined plans to reestablish Jewish settlements in the Strip 'within a year.' Police blocked counterprotesters from entering the event, as speakers called for the 'voluntary transfer' of Gazans and the redrawing of Israel's borders to stretch 'from the Euphrates to the Nhttps://
www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-10-21/ty-article-magazine/.premium/at-the-prepare-to-resettle-gaza-conference-wishful-thinking-made-way-to-concrete-plans/00000192-b04a-daee-a9fb-fedaf2a60000?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=Content&utm_campaign=daily-brief&utm_content=4621f663bfile'

It is of note that 30% of the current Israeli government attended this event at the weekend which was called "Conquer, Kick out and resettle". Do these people want peace? I don't think so.

I saw some of this on the Channel 4 news, people were in tents near the border with Gaza, partying and whooping whilst bombs dropped in the background, talking about occupying Gaza.
It was a disgrace.
Am not saying for a moment that all Isrealis support this, am sure there are those who don't, but was a big enough turn out to turn my stomacn.

Netanyahu attracts attention because he is the PM of Israel. All of us who follow Israeli politics know he is currently a puppet of the extreme right who do not want the war to end because for them the war is about occupation and Netanyahu doesn't want the war to end because it is keeping him in power and out of jail. Quid pro quo!

"There was a Sukkot-themed gathering near the Gaza border, settlers and far-right leaders outlined plans to reestablish Jewish settlements in the Strip 'within a year.' Police blocked counterprotesters from entering the event, as speakers called for the 'voluntary transfer' of Gazans and the redrawing of Israel's borders to stretch 'from the Euphrates to the Nhttps://
www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-10-21/ty-article-magazine/.premium/at-the-prepare-to-resettle-gaza-conference-wishful-thinking-made-way-to-concrete-plans/00000192-b04a-daee-a9fb-fedaf2a60000?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=Content&utm_campaign=daily-brief&utm_content=4621f663bfile'

It is of note that 30% of the current Israeli government attended this event at the weekend which was called "Conquer, Kick out and resettle". Do these people want peace? I don't think so.

Anniebach

Yet he is Israel’s longest serving PM, has won the last 3 elections,

Yes, but then we already know that an electorate can often return the strangest results, here in the UK it is not much better.

@David

www.mfa.gov.tr/turkiye-iran-relations.en.mfa

Yet he is Israel’s longest serving PM, has won the last 3 elections,

“Perhaps you didn’t know that Turkey and Iran are quite good bedfellows politically when it suits them.”

Because there have been no incidents reported I assumed it was a case of “daggers drawn” neither have cause to start a war. The only interest Turkey has in striking into Iraq or Syria is to hit the PKK. The Kurds want their own homeland but have never in history had a homeland. Because of frequent violent rebellions in the last century, government distrust and repression is a major concern for both sides and internationally.