Anniversary of Israeli massacre

valdavi

I thought that the USA had specifially asked Israel not to ban UNWRA as they are the most effective agency for aid into Gaza? Are Israel using the uncertainty of the last weeks before the presidential election to defy USA guidance? They already treat the United Nations with total disdain. I don't think any country should consider themselves above international law.And ultimately it is foolhardy for Israel because without western allies in the long run they are not the strong state that Netanyahu is posturing as at the moment.

I really think that they feel they have immunity from any international laws and just basically do what they want.
Of course the usual argument about someone from Hamas being involved with UNWRA will be floated without evidence but expected to be a forgive-all for genocide.

You disagree that Jewish people are hugely divided on Netanyahu and what he is doing in Gaza. This is not an opinion, but very well documented fact.

I disagree

Anniebach

How do you know what many Jews believe ? you cannot know

Why not? The fact many Jews do NOT support Netanyahu, do not support what is happening in Gaza, and blame him for not heading inteligence and warnings about the attacks, and not order the shooting down of any group attacking the fence with huge plant, is all very well documented. And yes, I do have very close Jewish friends who do share such evidence and articles, that state their opposition very strongly, and their massive criticism of Netanyahu and the IDF, and illegal settlements.

I thought that the USA had specifially asked Israel not to ban UNWRA as they are the most effective agency for aid into Gaza? Are Israel using the uncertainty of the last weeks before the presidential election to defy USA guidance? They already treat the United Nations with total disdain. I don't think any country should consider themselves above international law.And ultimately it is foolhardy for Israel because without western allies in the long run they are not the strong state that Netanyahu is posturing as at the moment.

If the Israeli government go ahead with this we will all have no doubt what its true mission is, to commit genocide.

Despicable. Just despicable. People are already starving and contracting preventable diseases. There are babies and children like a bundles of sticks.
No. This is cruelty on a massive scale and no way can it be justified.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gp2ejzpxeo

This has gone far beyond Israel defending themselves.

So it gets worse. Breaking news is that Israel has passed laws banning UNWRA from operating in Israel and in occupied areas under its control. A number of countries , including the US, U.K. and Germany have expressed serious concern.

This is completely indefensible as UNWRA are prominent in providing humanitarian aid in the Gaza.

Iam64 "It can be argued the Israeli’s responded by defending themselves, attempting to ensure their hostages were returned."

That could have been argued at the beginning but their actions have gone way past defending themselves and they showed little interest in getting the hostages returned.

How do you know what many Jews believe ? you cannot know

Gallant was Head of Defence at the time. From Reuters

'It must investigate me, the defence minister, it must investigate the prime minister," Gallant said, to cheers from the crowd.
Netanyahu has dismissed past calls to form a state inquiry into the Oct. 7 attack, which caught Israel off guard and sparked the war in Gaza, saying that examinations into what happened should be carried out once the war ends.
Only the government can decide to form a state commission of inquiry, which has a broad mandate and its findings carry weight. The chief justice of the Supreme Court chooses its members.,

I used the word Holocaust with reference to what happened to Jews in Germany. What else did you think I meant.

As for the conspiracy theory, this is not what I am saying- but what many Jews believe, both in Israel and out. And who see what is happening now as a real threat to themselves, and their children and grandchildren and friends, all Jews. It is not a conspiracy 'of mine'. This is what many believe, including Netanyahu's Military Chief.

Babs03 yes I agree
Jackiest ‘made use of it’. It can be argued the Israeli’s responded by defending themselves, attempting to ensure their hostages were returned.
They’re subject to rocket attacks daily and Hamas won’t return the hostages.
I despair at the intransigence on both ‘sides’
It needs international negotiators and Hamas like the Israelis need to commit to finding peace

Whether or not the Israeli government allowed 7/10 I do not know and probably never will but I am sure that they made use of it.

Iam64

Oreo, thanks for saying conspiracy theories have no place on this thread.
Fleurpepper, you’re the poster who restated as truth, what many of us see as a conspiracy theory. It suits your narrative so you repeat it, attempting to blame the Isreali government for ‘enabling’ 7/10

Like you, I have many Jewish friends, not internationally but here in Manchester. To a person, they’re horrified and devastated by what’s happening. A close friend has a cousin murdered on 7/10.

I found your use of the word holocaust to describe the dreadful attacks offensive. The Israelis and my Jewish friends are all connected to ww2 and the Holocaust. Criticise Netanhayu and his right wing government but please try to keep your feet on the floor

I am sorry for your friend's loss, that's really tough. The thing is the way Netanyahu and his hardline cronies are attempting to obliterate the Palestinian people will not ensure that what happened to your friend won't happen again because the seeds of hatred and violence will take root in the rubble and debris of Gaza, and even if Hamas are all killed there will be others to take their place. I mean the line is that everything that rains upon the Palestinian's heads is because of Hamas, they are to blame, and of course to some extent they are, but ordinary Palestinians fleeing the bombs don't see that, they only see Israel as the aggressor because the IDF are boming and killing them and their families, not Hamas. Is literal to them.
Peace can only be achieved if a ceasefire is called by both sides and the hostages released. There were meant to be ceasefire talks in Cairo this week, Hamas had agreed to attend, but now Netanyahu is enacting The General's Plan in Northern Gaza so I imagine the talks are dead in the water.
Nobody wins in this war. Palestinians mourn 45,000 dead so far and probably far more buried under the rubble, and Israel far from defending the nation has made any chance of future security a non starter.

Good post Iam64
👏👏👏

And many Germans risked and lost their lives speaking out against it and helping the Jews escape. I am not sure I would have had the courage to speak out against it.

Jackiest - no argument from me on that. What did happen though was the way many denied what was happening. Anti semitism was rife in europe

Iam64 The majority of the people in Germany did not vote for Hitler and the Holocaust that he created. Most people are innocent of the wars that leaders create.

Oreo, thanks for saying conspiracy theories have no place on this thread.
Fleurpepper, you’re the poster who restated as truth, what many of us see as a conspiracy theory. It suits your narrative so you repeat it, attempting to blame the Isreali government for ‘enabling’ 7/10

Like you, I have many Jewish friends, not internationally but here in Manchester. To a person, they’re horrified and devastated by what’s happening. A close friend has a cousin murdered on 7/10.

I found your use of the word holocaust to describe the dreadful attacks offensive. The Israelis and my Jewish friends are all connected to ww2 and the Holocaust. Criticise Netanhayu and his right wing government but please try to keep your feet on the floor

David49

How many Israelis support the War?.
A large majority, if an neighbouring country was bombarding the UK with rockets, attacking and kidnapping civilians the I would expect the population to want a response.
If the attackers chose to use their own population as human shields thats their choice and I wouldnt expect much sympathy.

And if a large section of the UK had been given to an ethnic or religious group that had suffered a dreadful, terrible holocaust by a third country- and then if large sections were taken, bit by bit, by settlers of the same group, forcibly, illegally, and what is left for the British people enclosed in massive fences with very strict and restrictive rules about their movement, etc. Do you thing the British population would want a response? Are you prepared to give up your home and the one of your family and friends, and live in a virtual prison?

I certainly would not.

Some of our relatives lost their home, land and everything during the Apartheid regime, in South Africa. They supported Nelson Mandela. I can totally understand this.

I think that most news channels whatever their bias would grind to a halt if they had to canvass hundreds of thousands of people.
And here on this thread none of us can canvass anyone. Is all presumption and opinion.
And seeing as Israel won’t allow embedded journalists in is very difficult to get any footage, only a few brave souls working freelance for the press have managed to get in and smuggle out footage.
Many have been killed, so I personally salute those trying to get news out to all of us to gawp at in the safety of our homes.

Unless posters here AND Jeremy Bowen have canvassed hundreds of thousands of people around the world to find out their views, it all comes across as really rather presumptuous.

And given the BBC's anti-Israel bias, (Bowen being historically a part of it) a bit of a one-sided view I would say.