Ban on corporal punishment towards children

I was NEVER smacked as a child neither at home or school I never smacked my children and my grandkids have never been smacked Thankfully
Making it illegal is very much needed I d glad this is being brought in
You are all correct it wouldn’t have saved little Sara but maybe it could have brought the hideous family to court easier and hopefully it may save other little ones

I thought this ban had been in place for a long time, although maybe I’m confusing it with the document we had to sign when I started teaching which said we would not use physical punishment including smacking.
It’s a good idea in theory, but as others have pointed out, it won’t stop the damage done in the cases we hear of in the news.
Why can’t we stop that?

I’d like further details rather than just an announcement. Perhaps some info from Scotland if the ban is already in place there.

e.g.
Who is going to report it, how, and to whom?
e.g. An online report with the assurance that the reporter’s details will not be revealed?
Who is going to be responsible for dealing with reports - social workers already in limited numbers?

Police-in equally limited numbers and already under attack for their violence?

What will the outcome be?
A fine?
Imprisonment?
Removal of children?

I didn’t know smacking was still allowed in England until I read this latest news about a ban.

When considering the dreadful case of Sara Sharif, a ban may not have been much deterrent to her father and family but knowing it was illegal might have empowered the neighbours to report it, given that they have testified to hearing smacking sounds coming from Sara’s house.

crazyH

I was smacked and I did smack. I have not held it against my mother and neither have my children held it against me. Just yesterday, I had an impromptu message from my adult daughter, telling me what a good job I did as a mother, bringing up 3 children, with no outside help (my family were thousands of miles away) and a ‘philandering husband’ (my words, not hers)..
So I must have done something right.

Many in my parents generation would smack, I didn’t hold it against my parents either because they were only doing what their parents had done as a means to discipline children. But I refrained from smacking mine because my OH was physically abused mercilessly by his father, and we just couldn’t resort to any kind of physical chastisement for that reason.
Am glad things have moved on though.

I was smacked and I did smack. I have not held it against my mother and neither have my children held it against me. Just yesterday, I had an impromptu message from my adult daughter, telling me what a good job I did as a mother, bringing up 3 children, with no outside help (my family were thousands of miles away) and a ‘philandering husband’ (my words, not hers)..
So I must have done something right.

There was a story in the news in the last couple if days regarding cruelty but it seemed so much more complex. Another case of people living with a baby/toddler in a tent. I just can’t comprehend how people would deem that normal or acceptable

maddyfour

Whilst I think we all agree that smacking is wrong, the OP referenced the sad case of Sara Sharif. Do any of you really believe that this poor child would not have been beaten to death if smacking was illegal?

Her father as I understand “was entitled to beat her for bad behaviour” according to his beliefs.
This looks to us like gratuitous violence and cruelty but he saw it as legitimate punishment.
Making beating/smacking illegal may not make the problem go away but it is still a step worth taking.

Nanna8
I was smacked really hard daily for the smallest of things. I didn’t really smack my children, maybe occasionally but always regretted it. Times have changed. We need to acknowledge it’s wrong and stop doing it. We have evolved

I thankfully don’t witness parents smacking their children as used to be the case on my day. When I was a child I risked being smacked not only by my parents but other relatives, teachers, and even neighbours.
But I still witness children being verbally abused by their parents. Certainly this is every bit as bad.

nanna8

I still remember the beatings I received as a child with horror and sadness. They did me no good whatsoever and damaged my relationship with my mother for ever.

I am most definitely against smacking - however I doubt the ban on smacking will save children like Sara Sharif!!
Children who live in such horrendous situations are often known to Social Services - so what is failing? Do Social workers not sufficient power to remove these children to safety and keep them there? How many times are children returned to abusive parents/ carers and lose their lives as a result of that decision. Are the rights of parents more important that the rights of defenseless children - I don't think so! Too many parents are given too many chances to improve and the children pay the price!! The system needs tightening up .

Sorry I meant Sarah Sharif not Rachel de Souza. I have covid and my brain is dull this morning!

In the 1950s and 60s when I grew up, disciplining children by assaulting them was part of the social norm I was even caned in school (Scotland) for incorrect work. I was also hit at home occasionally.

England has been very slow to introduce laws against this proven harmful practice, even after Wales and Scotland have done so, and it’s certainly overdue.

I can remember some years ago this subject was introduced on GN and there were many still of the opinion that a corrective “smack” did not harm. Hopefully that opinion has now changed. It can never be right to assault a child under the guise of a harmless “smack”.

It may not have prevented the death of Rachel de Souza, but who knows? If hitting children becomes illegal people may feel more empowered to report when they see, or even hear it, in her case.

I still remember the beatings I received as a child with horror and sadness. They did me no good whatsoever and damaged my relationship with my mother for ever.

maddyfour

Whilst I think we all agree that smacking is wrong, the OP referenced the sad case of Sara Sharif. Do any of you really believe that this poor child would not have been beaten to death if smacking was illegal?

No, something like this wouldn't be prevented, sadly. But that was never about discipline or anything close to normal. It was criminal brutality, pure and simple.

I know what you mean, Grandma70s, but things like smoking, and to some extent drinking and driving were once normalised, but are now socially unacceptable because of a change in public attitude, brought about by changes in the law. Yes, people still do smoke where they shouldn't, and drive after drinking, but not to anything like the extent that used to be considered ok.

If hitting children is made illegal, more authoritarian parents (perhaps more likely to use it as discipline?) might refrain because they believe in doing what they are told, and not wanting to break the law. If it's illegal, more people might speak out about it, and challenge parents whacking children in shops or discuss things with friends.

I think that changing the language around it would help, too. Having special words for violence towards children is very unhelpful. People even say that there is a difference between 'smacking' and 'hitting'. I assume they mean the intent is different (but even then, I'd argue that the intent is to cause pain in both cases) but the act is exactly the same. Calling it assault, or hitting would show it for what it is.

That doesn’t mean that I think this law should not be passed. I think it’s high time smacking was made illegal.

Whilst I think we all agree that smacking is wrong, the OP referenced the sad case of Sara Sharif. Do any of you really believe that this poor child would not have been beaten to death if smacking was illegal?

Just to add - neither of my grandchildren, now 15 and 12, has ever been smacked, I’m glad to say.

It seems obvious to me now that smacking children is wrong, and yet it was considered quite normal when I was a child. I was never smacked myself, except for one rap on the hand with a ruler, at school, for not knowing my seven times table. I was never smacked at home, but my mother admitted she smacked my brother once, “only because I had no idea how to cope with him”. That sort of desperation led me to smack both of my children on one occasion each, and I well remember the feeling of total failure it gave me.

I am all for outlawing any sort of physical punishment, but I don’t see how it can be enforced.

Many people who claim that smacking never did them any harm are using that as justification for hitting their own children, so clearly it taught them that violence against weaker and vulnerable people is acceptable - that's harm in my book.

I agree. Cossy's point

"We tell young children constantly it’s “wrong” to hit/kick/bite their friends, then smack them! Doesn’t make any sense"

Its also relevant to trying to achieve a society where men don't smack women around, isnt it?

Absolutely. It is assault, nothing more, nothing less. I can understand, in a way, violent behaviour back in the day because many of our parents were screwed up because of World War 2 and its horrors and didn’t know how to cope with frustrations. No excuses now.

I agree. I know plenty of people who say “I was smacked, it did me no harm”.

An adult hitting or smacking a younger, much smaller person is abhorrent, especially in anger. I have smacked my children and bitterly regret it!

There are many better ways to “discipline” “correct” “train” “penalise” children than hitting/smacking/beating.

I’m all for consequences, and punishments tailored to fit the crime, children do need boundaries, it doesn’t need to be achieved by smacking.

We tell young children constantly it’s “wrong” to hit/kick/bite their friends, then smack them! Doesn’t make any sense.

Most of us don’t use violence to train our dogs, why do it to our children.

It's been banned in Scotland for a while