The Guardian offers counselling to staff after ‘upsetting’ Trump election result!

Oreo you keep saying that people shouldn't talk about what's upsetting them but it's exactly what you're doing on this thread. You're obviously annoyed about a letter and teenagers getting milk and cookies which is trivial in the grand schemes of things so you're talking about it on here.

👏👏

Galaxy

So I think Trump and Johnson for that matter have more understanding of what matters to 'ordinary' people than many on the left. That's an interesting situation to be in. So for example abortion wasnt as important to people as the Democrats thought, now that might be astounding to me, but when I reflect on it, the majority of women dont have abortions, and if you are a woman who camt afford to buy food well I can see that it wouldnt be a key issue.

So I think Trump and Johnson for that matter have more understanding of what matters to 'ordinary' people than many on the left.

I believe there's a lot of truth in that. I think, too, that Corbyn was out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people. Which was partly why he was rejected by them.

Yet I believe that the understanding that both Trump has and Johnson had, is just that, understanding. If the electorate is made up of 'ordinary' people and you need those ordinary people to vote for you, then you have to tap into their concerns. Whether Trump does or Johnson did actually care is entirely another matter.

Johnson promised a lot, and delivered little - in their eyes. Not all, of course, he's still a hero to some.

But ultimately, if 'understanding' ordinary people is just a tool to use to win votes, then eventually, I think it will become obvious.

I think Johnson, personally, was and is a fraud and that the only genuine concern he has is for his own advancement.

Trump is a different kettle of fish. I think he can really warm to ordinary people, with one proviso, that they show unwavering loyalty to him. He is clever though, he really does 'understand' the priorities of ordinary people, and that is why he won. He understand the concerns of women, too, about the issue of abortion - which is why he rowed back a bit on his initial stance in order not to alienate them.

What will matter ultimately is if he 'delivers' and if he does I suppose those ordinary people that voted for him will not care about whether he's a convicted felon or anything else, because they, understandably, just want to get on with their lives.

But, for those of us who do care, it doesn't go away. That sense of unease when thinking about a man who has spoken offensively about women, the disabled, immigrants, anyone who opposes him. Some of the rhetoric the opposition has used is also offensive - but Trump does not pull his punches when he's being critical about those he regards as 'enemies', he doesn't hold back - but cannot tolerate it when others do the same to him.

And that's what worries me about him. I've watched some politicians, here in the UK, brush off criticism - not unscathed by it, but accepting it as par for the course of political life. They appear to be emotionally mature, and intellectually stable enough to take it in their stride. To some extent, even Johnson was able to do that... "them's the breaks". But Trump seems to be at the mercy of his outsize ego - criticism can have him seething and ranting, punching the keys on whatever device he uses to post on Truth Social - at all hours. Sometimes, it's even difficult to decipher what he's actually saying.

But, that's just a personal opinion. I take your point about 'ordinary' people.

That’s exactly where I struggle with this argument though petra, because it’s just not true that working class voters don’t vote Labour, or don’t vote Democrat. The battleground is over relatively small groups in the middle ground, who aren’t loyal to any party but are swayed by economic promises from charismatic leaders - I don’t think it’s about party, because for example Tony Blair was just as popular as Boris Johnson was - etc.

Galaxy
To add to your comments above: the Latino vote. By and large they are catholics. Plus, the catholic view on gender politics.
I don’t support Trump for one nano second but I have to admit to schadenfreude when the party purporting to support/ understand working class folk have Jack shit knowledge of what makes ordinary folk tick.

So I think Trump and Johnson for that matter have more understanding of what matters to 'ordinary' people than many on the left. That's an interesting situation to be in. So for example abortion wasnt as important to people as the Democrats thought, now that might be astounding to me, but when I reflect on it, the majority of women dont have abortions, and if you are a woman who camt afford to buy food well I can see that it wouldnt be a key issue.

Neither do I - but I do see them as equally unwilling to listen to viewpoints that don’t reinforce their own views.

I dont disagree with that, but some understanding of the voters on the 'other' side might help, I dont see them as fascist or racist for a start.

So you’re displaying bias Galaxy. We all do, no matter where we sit.

I am not in danger of attributing blame, I am blaming them, completely.

Maremia

Much as I love to win an argument, this time I hope the Trump supporters will prove to be correct in their assumtion that he will be a good, honest, fair, decent and just President. We will find out soon.

I'm with you.

Let's hope the American citizens who are concerned about their 'grocery-store bills', their 'gas' at the station - all quite understandable concerns - get to see an improvement in their standard of living.

I listened to them talking - ordinary people who just want to get on with their lives, some not even really engaged in 'politics'...

I hope Trump's blustering, ranting rhetorical style is more bark than bite, and that some of his less-stable followers and supporters - the Proud Boys types with guns, etc, calm down now they've got the result they wanted.

The Gods alone know how the mass deportations are going to pan out, I can't even think about it.

And women, whose rights to autonomy over their own bodies is very much in question - let's hope Trump is canny enough to back-off and leave it, as he said he would, as an individual state decision. Though that doesn't bode well for any woman who is pregnant against her will - anti-abortionists with or without Trump's backing can be very intimidating.

However, Trump is going to protect women (whether they like it or not). As women are, largely, already emancipated, I'm puzzled what it actually is that he's going to protect them from. There are other 'regimes' that ostensibly protect their women-folk - usually by completely restricting their freedom, but I'm not assuming he means anything along those lines ???

I don't think Trump will be honest, or fair or particularly decent - it's just not his style, but I hope he will focus on the economy and row-back on his aggression towards those he considers his enemies. Which might cool the heels of his more volatile supporters. I don't know, really.

Am signing off, it's all a bit too depressing - I'm worried about the effect on our own economy, too. I just hope that when all the hoo-ha has died down, Trump's been sworn-in, and the serious business of governing gets into gear, that things are not going to be as bad as some fear.

Galaxy

It's a very similar thing America or here, the left becomes the party of the middle class, with concerns that are of no interest to the working class, they only pays attention to their own bubble and cant understand when people dont think like them. Rely on the mainstream media too much whilst is social media and who would have thought it podcasts that hold the power.

You’re in danger of attributing blame to one side for a lack of understanding of working class people. In reality everybody thinks they are right, and few people hear or understand alternative views. That’s the case wherever you sit on the political spectrum (and there are millions of working class Labour voters?).

Allira, and then the French journalists who were murdered in the Charlie Hedbro attack, Jamal Khashoggi in the Turkish Embassy, Alexander Litvinenko and numerous others.
Oreo, you talk about how journalists should cope because the brave fighting youngsters did so during world wars, but how many stories have we heard that some of these survivors subsequently couldn't live normal lives? Perhaps if counselling had been available for them, they might have been able to do so.

Dear God sorry for the typos. Prosecco and typing too quickly.

It's a very similar thing America or here, the left becomes the party of the middle class, with concerns that are of no interest to the working class, they only pays attention to their own bubble and cant understand when people dont think like them. Rely on the mainstream media too much whilst is social media and who would have thought it podcasts that hold the power.

We didn’t do anything to make people turn to Trump though Galaxy, did we, as we have no influence on US politics?
To my mind there is no difference between a gut over reaction to Trump and a gut over reaction to Starmer, they are flip sides of the same coin - which renders most of us culpable for not being unbiased or logical.

Oreo

Galaxy

Actually I think there are very few Trump supporters on here, some of us are just trying to explore the issues.

Exactly, but it’s easier for posters to say ‘Trumpian’ triumphantly if they don’t like some posts.
There’s a def infantilising of adults now so much so that it’s worrying.Nobody can feel upset or have their sensitive feelings hurt and this includes students acting like toddlers in a play nursery with cookies and Lego or the cancel culture going on or, it appears newspaper journalists, who used to be a hard lot, being asked if they need to talk to somebody if upset by the DT win.
Just been watching a tv programme on the Battle Of Britain, those brave young pilots in their early 20’s one Hurricane pilot with only two months experience of flying one, shot down into Essex mud.It was a bravura performance by the British pilots facing overwhelming odds.
Not that we want young men or women to have to face a war, but you do wonder, given the mental and physical mollycoddling going on right now how we would fare if there really was one.🤔

I've been to a gathering of veterans today and found out that 1,744 Allied planes and 1,977 Axis planes were lost in the Battle of Britain.

Young men lost, widows, orphans, mothers and fathers grieving.

One feels like saying to these journalists "Oh, do get a grip".
But then we remember Terry Lloyd, Marie Colvin, James Miller and many others and also those injured such as Frank Gardner, who were all trying to bring us the truth.

It was blindingly obvious that it was a real possibility.
I predicted Harris but had changed my mind a few times during the campaign. But I am not surprised, and not at all surprised at the reaction. I have completely given up hope of anyone saying I wonder what we did that made people turn to Trump.

I don’t think it was about having faith in humanity, rather seeing clearly which way the wind was blowing voting wise.
I said ages ago on this very forum that Trump would win, either against Biden or Harris.I take no pleasure in being right.

I don’t see how it was blindingly obvious that a convicted felon who lies constantly ( and wouldn’t legally be allowed to work as a bartender in some states) would have law abiding moral people voting for him. Not if you have any faith in humanity, that is.

I have no compunction whatsoever about being judgmental, although, I hope, not too derisive, at times.

I quite accept senitivities differ, but to find that the employees of a national newspaper, where the horrors of the world, pour ove their desks on a daily basis should need counselling when a man they do not like (I do not like him either) wins an election, it had been blindingly obvious he would win. almost demands judgemental comments and an element of derision.

What utter silliness MaizieD

^ but it’s easier for posters to say ‘Trumpian’ triumphantly if they don’t like some posts.^

It's also easier for posters to fail to understand that a comparison of what some people are saying with things that Trump says is not the same as asserting that, because they sound like Trump they must be Trump supporters. they just seem to have the same sort of mindset.

I don't see much 'exploring of issues, I'm afraid, Galaxy. I see lots of judgmentalism and derision.

Apart from any war scenario, it doesn’t bode well for any young man or woman to treat them like kids, how will they withstand the real knocks in life.

Galaxy

Actually I think there are very few Trump supporters on here, some of us are just trying to explore the issues.

Exactly, but it’s easier for posters to say ‘Trumpian’ triumphantly if they don’t like some posts.
There’s a def infantilising of adults now so much so that it’s worrying.Nobody can feel upset or have their sensitive feelings hurt and this includes students acting like toddlers in a play nursery with cookies and Lego or the cancel culture going on or, it appears newspaper journalists, who used to be a hard lot, being asked if they need to talk to somebody if upset by the DT win.
Just been watching a tv programme on the Battle Of Britain, those brave young pilots in their early 20’s one Hurricane pilot with only two months experience of flying one, shot down into Essex mud.It was a bravura performance by the British pilots facing overwhelming odds.
Not that we want young men or women to have to face a war, but you do wonder, given the mental and physical mollycoddling going on right now how we would fare if there really was one.🤔