Donald and Elon: two immature guys running the entire US economy.

David49

“Anyone who worked in industry during the great chuck outs of the 1980s and 90s will remember how people were made redundant, but their work wasn't and those left were expected to do their own job plus the job of several of those made redundant.”

Wasnt that the objective of reducing staffing?, with new technology and AI, far fewer admin staff are going to be needed

in the mid 1990s AI was a future pipe dream that we now know was 20 years ahead. However the new technology was already there and that was actually used to get people to do more work because the attitude of managers was now we have got all this equipment we can access information we never had before and I think what we need to know is this, this and this.

Some times the technology did indeed enable us to access information we hadn't before and use to to good purpose, most of the time it merely generated reams of paperwork (from those nice printers attached to every computer) that was no use to anyone, but made the senior managers feel better and made more work for the people who had to generate it.

Cannot stand either but why should they care about UK economy...America first and that is right as they are Americans....We will see if US economy improves it's Trump's foreign policies that concern me as he doesn't care a jot about Europe or rest of world.......

GDP per head (Purchasing Power Parity) 2022: USA $74.6k, UK $54.6k.

“Anyone who worked in industry during the great chuck outs of the 1980s and 90s will remember how people were made redundant, but their work wasn't and those left were expected to do their own job plus the job of several of those made redundant.”

Wasnt that the objective of reducing staffing?, with new technology and AI, far fewer admin staff are going to be needed

nanna8

Now why did they get to be millionaires? Bull crap and bluster may be part of it but it isn’t the whole story- they know how to make money. The jury is out as to whether this can be broadened to cover their country. Either way I think my country and your country will be worse off because they will focus purely on the USA and won’t give a rats about us except, possibly,where they might gain a benefit.

To make money you have to have bull and bluster, then when you get the opportunity you have to deliver the goods, if you fail the customer won’t ask you again. That applies to a one man window cleaner or a multi million corporation.

It’s easy to make money if you deliver the goods, satisfied customers will spread the word, you expand and make more.

What happens when you sack thousands of Civil Servants, is that the government then has to bring in consultants to do the work the Civill Servants previously did. Consultants cost a lot more than full time staff. This is one of the problems facing the NHS, which is paying huge sums of money for agency nurses because they cannot recruit staff because they get paid so much more if they work through an agency.

Anyone who worked in industry during the great chuck outs of the 1980s and 90s will remember how people were made redundant, but their work wasn't and those left were expected to do their own job plus the job of several of those made redundant.

This is not to deny that there is overstaffing in places in the Civil Service, and the MoD is a classic example, but downsizing is so often done with an axe rather than a scalpel.

CooCooforCocoPuffs

Actually his grandfather was not all that wealthy. His father made a good fortune. Trump has had about 12-14 businesses go belly up (failed, went out of business or bankrupt). On the other hand, Trump has about six ventures, personal business ventures, that made him wealthy; the successes outweighed the failures. His father provided capital for him, he made the money he has made on his own steam.

Trumps grandfather made his living from a hotel on the California goldfields running a brothel, entirely acceptable in those days.

“Why, for example, does the MoD require 63,000 civil servants, when the army is down to 72,000 and the Navy and RAF half that number each?”

The MOD certainly employ a lot of civilians mostly as contractors for back up roles, they are not “civil servants” as most understand.

keepingquiet

Yes, a nightmare pairing indeed. Neither of them care anything about the UK economy, only the US. They will bleed us dry and strip us bare and on top of Brexit we are well and truly scuppered.

Be careful what you wish for folks- Trump is a many times failed businessman and felon who inherited most of the wealth he has actually mananged to squander. As for Musk? He would not have made his money without jumping on other people's technological bandwagons and Tesla is losing money hand over fist.

Of course, this doesn't matter because they are both seen as strong men even though they are both as human as you or I.

It was mentioned on Question Time last night that Musk has received a lot of government subsidies for Tesla and Space X.

www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html

There is a huge conflict of interest with his partnership with Trump but I don’t suppose that will bother either of them.

Actually his grandfather was not all that wealthy. His father made a good fortune. Trump has had about 12-14 businesses go belly up (failed, went out of business or bankrupt). On the other hand, Trump has about six ventures, personal business ventures, that made him wealthy; the successes outweighed the failures. His father provided capital for him, he made the money he has made on his own steam.

Now why did they get to be millionaires? Bull crap and bluster may be part of it but it isn’t the whole story- they know how to make money. The jury is out as to whether this can be broadened to cover their country. Either way I think my country and your country will be worse off because they will focus purely on the USA and won’t give a rats about us except, possibly,where they might gain a benefit.

Found this today from the Open Britain Team

"But now, Elon Musk will help head up the new Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) along with former Republican Presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy. The irony of the “efficiency” department having two co-leaders is not lost on any of us.

Technically, it’s not an actual department, more of an advisory bureau.

That means, surprise surprise, Musk will not have to go through the arduous Senate-approval process for his new position

DOGE’s role, aside from boosting the value of a dodgy cryptocurrency, is to advise Trump on dismantling the regulatory state.

Will the richest billionaire in the world specifically target the regulations that limit his own profits? It’s hard to see how he wouldn’t

There’s a word for this phenomenon: oligarchy

A billionaire president and his billionaire friend are laying out their plans to strip the country for parts.

Musk has no electoral mandate to be involved in this process in any shape or form, and it’s no wonder he’s opted to dodge even the flimsy accountability processes the US has in place

Things are about to get dark Stateside, and quickly. Rep Matt Gaetz (convicted sex-trafficker) will run Trump’s law enforcement, Tulsi Gabbard (known purveyor of Putin propaganda) will be the nation’s intelligence chief, and a former Fox News host will run Defence. What could possibly go wrong

What's your occupational background? I bet anything you like it's not in policy or anything very senior. If it were, you'd know what you're talking about.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Well we have to agree to disagree then. The UK needs its own Elon Musk. The overmanning, waste and inefficiency in government departments is off the scale.

Why, for example, does the MoD require 63,000 civil servants, when the army is down to 72,000 and the Navy and RAF half that number each?

Why does the NHS need 650,000 non-medical staff accounting for 48% of its workforce?

Why does HMRC fail to collect £10 billion in taxes annually? The list goes on, sadly.

We get the likes of Paula Vennells. I’m so jealous.

Evidence please!

Yes to both.

And hasn’t Twitter/X devalued greatly since Musk bought it?

eazybee

Trump and Musk may well be immature, but at this moment they are rich, successful and powerful, by their own efforts.
That doesn't mean I support them, but you ignore them at your peril.

Didn’t Trump inherit his money from his father. And hasn’t he been bankrupt several times?

mae13 Who says they are immature and what is your definition of immatirut? Two very successful businessmen who have made a lot of money nd at least one of which wasn't very fussy how he made it.

I cannot see any immaturity in that. or do you just mean you do not like them. In which case say what you mean.

Trump and Musk may well be immature, but at this moment they are rich, successful and powerful, by their own efforts.
That doesn't mean I support them, but you ignore them at your peril.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Disaster economists think it impossible to reduce the size of the State. But the entrepreneur will show them otherwise.

Let's deal with facts. NASA, a government agency estimated a budget of $ 4 billion to develop a partially reusable rocket. Musk's SpaceX built and successfully demonstrated one for $400 million - 1/10th of what NASA projected, an that's assuming that they even managed to build it for the estimate. The same likely applies to every single aspect of government.

This duo of Musk and Ramswamy will FINALLY attack horrendous government waste and inefficiency.

Inefficiency is a characteristic of many governments including the UK, they simply have no grasp of economics in the real world. Empire building is rife, the more you employ the more important you are

Well we have to agree to disagree then. The UK needs its own Elon Musk. The overmanning, waste and inefficiency in government departments is off the scale.

Why, for example, does the MoD require 63,000 civil servants, when the army is down to 72,000 and the Navy and RAF half that number each?

Why does the NHS need 650,000 non-medical staff accounting for 48% of its workforce?

Why does HMRC fail to collect £10 billion in taxes annually? The list goes on, sadly.

We get the likes of Paula Vennells. I’m so jealous.

nanna8

Give them a chance, they haven’t even started yet. Financially I think Trump will actually be better than Biden though not in other ways.

Why would you think that ? His businesses were for the most part failures . He will once again enrich his wealthy friends with tax cuts for the uberwealthy .

Meanwhile in the UK public spending is set to grow ever larger.
Of that I am convinced.

Disaster economists think it impossible to reduce the size of the State. But the entrepreneur will show them otherwise.

Let's deal with facts. NASA, a government agency estimated a budget of $ 4 billion to develop a partially reusable rocket. Musk's SpaceX built and successfully demonstrated one for $400 million - 1/10th of what NASA projected, an that's assuming that they even managed to build it for the estimate. The same likely applies to every single aspect of government.

This duo of Musk and Ramswamy will FINALLY attack horrendous government waste and inefficiency.

David49

A large number of UK cars sent to the US will be Jaguar Landrover, unlike many other brands they don’t have a US manufacturing plant, European cars built in the US have a big advantage

A steep increase in tariffs and heavy nationalistic marketing could change all that relatively easily.