‘Police treat classroom jibes as hate incidents’.

Doodledog

I think that's a good point, Cumbrianmale. There is something about team sports in particular that brings out the worst in some children - the idea of literally letting the side down, probably.

If a kid is good at them and enjoys them fine, but otherwise they can make less athletic kids feel miserable and it can lead to bullying. Also some PE teachers can be nasty pieces of work in my experience( failed sportsmen with a grudge).

I think that's a good point, Cumbrianmale. There is something about team sports in particular that brings out the worst in some children - the idea of literally letting the side down, probably.

I think another source of school bullying is compulsory games like football and rugby. I know many schools have changed their PE policies over the years for pupils that have little aptitude and interest in team sports, but many still make pupils play them until they are 16. Kids that are good at these, and sometimes the teachers as well, like picking on kids who have no aptitude and rather then being character building and encouraging team spirit, they often encorage a culture of bullying. I couldn't wait to throw my PE kit in the bin when I was 16, and many kids felt the same.

Thank you escaped.

And so good the senior school were straight onto it in a proactive manner.

My heart goes out to you theworriedwell. Thank you for the painful résumé, and yes, you and your child were let down by the Head and the teacher.
You wouldn't be the caring parent you are if you didn't blame yourself a little bit. I do hope you can see that you were not the one who was supposed to be the expert in this, with all the resources to hand to deal with it. 💐

growstuff

theworriedwell

Be surprised. My DDs teacher definitely ignored it and when challenged tried to justify the bullies as they were unhappy. When she told my DD she had to be understanding I corrected her. DD was not there to be therapy for them.

I'm not the slightest bit surprised. Too many people concentrate on the bully and make excuses. The number one priority when dealing with bullying is the victim. There is no reason why any bullying in schools should ever be tolerated for any reason ever. In schools where a no bullying policy is enforced effectively, the message soon gets through and bullies are too cowardly to take on a system.

In my experience, bullies and bigots come from all sorts of social backgrounds. Some may never accept they are in the wrong, which is why it's essential that rules about bullying are enforced. There's no point appealing to better nature or any kind of moral argument.

Schools have no jurisdiction outside the school, so it's quite right that police will be involved.

theworriedwell You were absolutely right. Your last sentence 'DD was not there to be therapy for them' should be part of every anti-bullying training course.

The amazing thing was how the senior school stopped it so quickly. They knew the history so I suppose they were ready for it but they were very effective and when I spoke to her head of year the day it started again I felt complete confidence that he was going to sort it and he did. The main thing was not one member of staff made her feel she was at fault.

growstuff

escaped

I hope it helps to talk here theworriedwell, and I don't mean to pry. You don't need to answer However, I am surprised that the situation with your child went on for 3 years in Junior Scool without being tackled. Did all the class teachers overlook the bullies' behaviour? Did the school have an inspection during thst time? If that was the case, the Headteacher was negligent and completely to blame. I would be mortified if this were taking place in the setting, and a teacher just turned a blind eye. Infact that teacher would be out of the door if they were on my watch.

I don't agree that the headteacher was completely to blame. The bully shared at least some of the blame.

I do blame the bullies but I also blame the Head who failed to deal with multiple complaints. The person I blame most is the class teacher, she was the adult in the room, she was a trained professional, she knew what was going on and she failed to do her job. I also blame myself as I failed to protect my child although I tried.

escaped

I hope it helps to talk here theworriedwell, and I don't mean to pry. You don't need to answer However, I am surprised that the situation with your child went on for 3 years in Junior Scool without being tackled. Did all the class teachers overlook the bullies' behaviour? Did the school have an inspection during thst time? If that was the case, the Headteacher was negligent and completely to blame. I would be mortified if this were taking place in the setting, and a teacher just turned a blind eye. Infact that teacher would be out of the door if they were on my watch.

The first year wasn't as bad, it grew as things do, then she had the same teacher for 2 years. There were periods when it died down and we'd breathe a sigh of relief and then it would start again. I think if we'd been able to see the full picture of how it would develop early on we'd have moved her but she did have friends and is quite a strong character so didn't want to be forced out. The final incident, a serious physical attack which was stopped by another parent would certainly have been a police matter if only the teacher was there as she stood and watched.

No there was no inspection during the 3 years. Having that final meeting with the Head where he apologised and admitted they had failed her while the teacher stood crying was some comfort.

I had another child at the school who had different teachers and had a great time at the school. I always think it is easy to be misled by other families experiences at a school. As child No.1's parent the school was a disaster and I couldn't be more negative about it if I tried. As the parent of child No.2 it was a great place, he had wonderful teachers, lots of friends and a totally positive experience.

I think in all of my life the person I feel most negative about is that teacher. I hate her with a passion.

GrannyGravy13

Try explaining to your child why the the bully gets a reward/star at the end of each school day if they had been good was fair.

Our child’s response was my friends and I are good and do not bully every day, where is our reward/star…

I agree with you 100% GG13. I hope your child is OK now.

eazybee

If there had been an Inspection during the three years the parents would have had an opportunity to raise the matter either with the Lead Inspector or at the open meeting, This happened at the open meeting at my daughter's secondary school when two parents complained about the school's handling of their daughter's alleged bullying. Their objection was that the teachers should punish the alleged bullies by removing them from the class, if not the school, without explanation, and without investigating the matter with all concerned first, because that would upset their daughter and , their words, 'they would turn on her.' They had stuck a post-it note on her back saying 'sneak' or similar, and been punished for it there and then.
Unless you hear both sides you cannot pass judgement on these situations

Sorry, but I'm going to pass judgment.

Bullying should never be tolerated in school. Isolated incidents might seem insignificant, but not when they go on and on.

eazybee It seems to me that you believe bullying victims ask for it (as so many do).

If a bully comes from a toxic background (and they don't all), that needs to be dealt with after it's been made very clear that bullying is unacceptable, there will be no excuses and further incidents will result in consequences.

Try explaining to your child why the the bully gets a reward/star at the end of each school day if they had been good was fair.

Our child’s response was my friends and I are good and do not bully every day, where is our reward/star…

If there had been an Inspection during the three years the parents would have had an opportunity to raise the matter either with the Lead Inspector or at the open meeting, This happened at the open meeting at my daughter's secondary school when two parents complained about the school's handling of their daughter's alleged bullying. Their objection was that the teachers should punish the alleged bullies by removing them from the class, if not the school, without explanation, and without investigating the matter with all concerned first, because that would upset their daughter and , their words, 'they would turn on her.' They had stuck a post-it note on her back saying 'sneak' or similar, and been punished for it there and then.
Unless you hear both sides you cannot pass judgement on these situations

escaped

The Headteacher was completely to blame for not tackling the situation is what I said.

No, you didn't.

The Headteacher was completely to blame for not tackling the situation is what I said.

escaped

I hope it helps to talk here theworriedwell, and I don't mean to pry. You don't need to answer However, I am surprised that the situation with your child went on for 3 years in Junior Scool without being tackled. Did all the class teachers overlook the bullies' behaviour? Did the school have an inspection during thst time? If that was the case, the Headteacher was negligent and completely to blame. I would be mortified if this were taking place in the setting, and a teacher just turned a blind eye. Infact that teacher would be out of the door if they were on my watch.

I don't agree that the headteacher was completely to blame. The bully shared at least some of the blame.

I hope it helps to talk here theworriedwell, and I don't mean to pry. You don't need to answer However, I am surprised that the situation with your child went on for 3 years in Junior Scool without being tackled. Did all the class teachers overlook the bullies' behaviour? Did the school have an inspection during thst time? If that was the case, the Headteacher was negligent and completely to blame. I would be mortified if this were taking place in the setting, and a teacher just turned a blind eye. Infact that teacher would be out of the door if they were on my watch.

theworriedwell

Be surprised. My DDs teacher definitely ignored it and when challenged tried to justify the bullies as they were unhappy. When she told my DD she had to be understanding I corrected her. DD was not there to be therapy for them.

I'm not the slightest bit surprised. Too many people concentrate on the bully and make excuses. The number one priority when dealing with bullying is the victim. There is no reason why any bullying in schools should ever be tolerated for any reason ever. In schools where a no bullying policy is enforced effectively, the message soon gets through and bullies are too cowardly to take on a system.

In my experience, bullies and bigots come from all sorts of social backgrounds. Some may never accept they are in the wrong, which is why it's essential that rules about bullying are enforced. There's no point appealing to better nature or any kind of moral argument.

Schools have no jurisdiction outside the school, so it's quite right that police will be involved.

theworriedwell You were absolutely right. Your last sentence 'DD was not there to be therapy for them' should be part of every anti-bullying training course.

Be surprised. My DDs teacher definitely ignored it and when challenged tried to justify the bullies as they were unhappy. When she told my DD she had to be understanding I corrected her. DD was not there to be therapy for them.

If the bullies' behaviour would be regarded as criminal, if they were adults, the police should be involved.
I agree. The minute a bullying incident is identified as a safeguarding concern, then procedures should be followed, which could include police involvement.

Today's world has the added problem of cyberbullying in schools. Younger and younger children now have their own phones, and they need clear instruction as to how to use these when communicating with others. Yet another task falling to teachers in primary schools to administer!

I have no idea what the Jamie Bulger murderers were like in the classroom. However, I do know that there are others like them and the other 29 or so children in the class suffer as a result of their bullying. If no amount of intervention or correction works, the bullies need to be excluded. Too often the parents/carers of the victims of bullies end up having to take their children out of school, when it should be the other way round. The bottom line must be that bullying is never tolerated and if some pupils (and their parents can't respect that) there must never be any excuses - they should be the ones looking for alternatives. If the bullies' behaviour would be regarded as criminal, if they were adults, the police should be involved.

The Jamie Bulger murderers were pure evil, especially one of them.. They were born that way, and no amount of intervention or correction would have helped.

I would be very surprised if any primary teacher overlooked bullying behaviour, deliberately or otherwise, but sometimes inexperience, lack of training, or general weaknesses in that area don't help. (Just to clarify, it has nothing to do with longevity in the job, some of the best disciplinarians in the primary setting are the young, just out of college teachers. It's how experiences are used that counts,)

Allira used the word if twice, I'm guessing she was well aware of the fact that we don't know whether the "retard" jibe was a "one off". My 3rd paragraph also covers this.

eazybee

Rather than calling in the police, an educational psychiatrist would be a more useful option, to speak to both families of the children involved. Difficult to arrange, and nearly always rejected.

Why does the victim's family need an educational psychologist? They don't need behaviour modification. The victim and his/her family have done nothing wrong. It seems like victim-blaming, which happens far too often in bullying cases.

Allira

eazybee

Rather than calling in the police, an educational psychiatrist would be a more useful option, to speak to both families of the children involved. Difficult to arrange, and nearly always rejected.

Educational Psychologist?

If the child is demonstrating general behavioural problems then a referral would be the right way forward but for an incident like the one mentioned in the OP, if a one-off, surely it could be dealt with promptly by the school.
No need for police involvement either.

We don't know this was a 'one off'.

escaped

I think good teachers know not to overreact where name calling is concerned. Especially at primary level, because not all bullying is intended to hurt or be deliberate.

For example, some young children may see their behaviour as teasing the other child, like in a game. It's not malicious and although unacceptable, it can be quickly corrected without coming down hard. Often just a kind, simple correction can be more effective than punishment. The important thing is to change that behaviour for the future.

However, the problem is that this sort of low level intimidation can have a wearing impact on the targeted child, a bit like a relentless dripping tap over a period of time. That's why it needs to be corrected as soon as the teacher realises it isn't just an inadvertent slip of the tongue. Of course that takes experience or sharp detection skills which not all teachers have at their finger tips.

Involving police at age 9 for name calling does sound disproportionate to the poor conduct.

None of us knows the context to the OP. Of course, if this was just a 'one off' it's disproportionate to call the police (which I've already written). Nevertheless, if it's part of a wider pattern, it could be absolutely appropriate to call the police. I wasn't a primary school teacher. However, I was a secondary school teacher for many years and I witnessed a number of 11 year olds, whose bullying behaviour was already well-established but had been overlooked. The secondary school then had to deal with the results. Mercifully, it doesn't happen too often, but there are some young children whose behaviour is totally unacceptable and causes misery to many others. Jamie Bulger's murderers were only 10. Age and home background must never be used as an excuse.