Assisted dying bill passed.

What if the patient just isn't compus mentis enough to know what's going on or cope with the necessary waits for 2 doctors, a high court judge then two more weeks?

OldFrill

nanna8

What a sick comment. I’m talking about large doses of morphine to terminally ill people here to alleviate their pain. It kills them. I am absolutely shocked at what you said.

You said -

I think ‘unofficially’ it has been happening for a while with seriously ill patients in their last few days but you are not meant to talk about it

So "unofficially" (without any regulation) someone can administer a lethal dose of drugs and that's not murder?

And you then stated that unofficial method of killing is preferable to regulated (legal) assisted dying/suicide.

I know nurses used to see off terminal patients, it was murder then and it's murder if it happens now. Compassion doesn't excuse illegal killing, it has to be regulated.

That's a terrible thing to say re Nurses. Increase of diamorphine is done incrementally to ease pain, not a deliberate injection to cause death , there is a huge difference. If I'd been asked to "murder" a patient,
I would have left a profession I loved.
Assisted suicide is the way to go here, as in Switzerland, done by patient themselves, or a machine, as in Switzerland. Not involving medical professionals to deliver the fatal dose. That is the easy way out, get someone else to do the dirty work.

nanna8

What a sick comment. I’m talking about large doses of morphine to terminally ill people here to alleviate their pain. It kills them. I am absolutely shocked at what you said.

You said -

I think ‘unofficially’ it has been happening for a while with seriously ill patients in their last few days but you are not meant to talk about it

So "unofficially" (without any regulation) someone can administer a lethal dose of drugs and that's not murder?

And you then stated that unofficial method of killing is preferable to regulated (legal) assisted dying/suicide.

I know nurses used to see off terminal patients, it was murder then and it's murder if it happens now. Compassion doesn't excuse illegal killing, it has to be regulated.

If the Bill becomes law as I hope it will those who do not wish to use it for religious or other reasons can opt to die a natural death with whatever pain and indignities they can tolerate. It's not compulsory, merely permissive.

Mixed feelings here too, but in my mind, it's not about those witnessing the suffering, nor those administering palliative care (if you are lucky enough to find a place).

It has to be about the one who is actually suffering. Family and nurses can be as caring and compassionate as they like, but the sufferer is the one who needs to be able to call an end to it.

Grantanow

Good news. Leadbeater is to be congratulated. The Bill can be improved. In my opinion it is too restrictive: drop the 6 months prognosis requirement and the High Court judge.

This bill was passed on the basis of the very narrow band of people that would be eligible and the 'safeguards' it would have in place. Before it even becomes law you want those safeguards and conditions altered. Yet those of us with genuine concerns have been constantly told there would be no slippery slope, the safeguards were 'written in stone'.

Grantanow

Good news. Leadbeater is to be congratulated. The Bill can be improved. In my opinion it is too restrictive: drop the 6 months prognosis requirement and the High Court judge.

DH commented that by the time a High Court judge had made a decision, it could be too late anyway.

It is something we ponder as we get older, particularly if we have seen loved ones suffering.

And here we go. I confidently predict that in under 5 years time the scope will be widened.

Good news. Leadbeater is to be congratulated. The Bill can be improved. In my opinion it is too restrictive: drop the 6 months prognosis requirement and the High Court judge.

At least the announcement of the result of the vote was greeted in the Chamber with a sombre silence, as the MPs possibly reflected on what they may have unleashed. Unlike the group of supporters capering about outside to loud shouts and cheers.
Unseemly.

Allira

Mollygo

HousePlantQueen

Mollygo
Much easier than improving palliative care. I’m sure KS is congratulating himself on another money saving venture.
What a nasty and cruel comment.

You don't think it’s easier?

I must say the thought did cross my mind, especially with the crisis in hospice funding which will only worsen due to the Budget.

However, I don't think for one minute that is actually the reason for Starmer and Reeves voting for this Bill. I am sure they have thought long and hard about it.

I’m sure you’re correct Allira, that Starmer and the other mp’s who voted in favour did so after serious reflections on the potential costs and benefits
That really is a disgusting view, that Starmer was influenced in believing it will be cheaper than improving palliative care. It isn’t either/or and the government is committed to improving the nhs

I know someone is on of life care, who has morphine in a lock up box that only a Gp can access- is that the big dollop they get get at the end?
My friends 50 yr old son, throat cancer was given an injection, from which he never woke up from- she was fuming because she said he wasn’t in any pain & they were having a full conversation as to whether he was frightened of dying ? She never got the answer 😔

Babs03

I am relieved that this legislation is being passed, have seen various family members and close friends die in terrible pain, and the NHS isn’t that great at end of life care. One of my friend’s DH had a very bad death due to mix up with palliative care given at home, he died screaming.
Am afraid I just don’t trust end of life care to be that good for me either and would not wish my own bad death upon my grown family or DH.
We allow our pets a dignified death, is time to give people the same choice.

Absolutely

Gran16

I'm glad it passed and hope they get it done but with cast iron fail safe in place. I've heard people say if palliative care was better this wouldn't be necessary but that is not always the case. I lost my Dad in 2019, he was mid 80s with terminal cancer and alzheimers and went into a lovely care home for end of life care when we were told he had a few days up to a week left to live. His death dragged on for almost 12 weeks and was horrendous for him, and awful for the family to watch him deteriorate slowly over a prolonged period. Apart from morphine and calming drugs there was little anyone could do for him.
Before he lost capacity some 6 months earlier he had had enough and was often upset saying if he were a dog they'd put him out of his misery .. he was diagnosed and had major surgery 8 years before this which left him in a less than ideal position.
I know if he had the option to end it sooner he would have. Even the nurses that cared for him agreed his death was not dignified

God love your dad 🫂 100% agree. Just lost my dad to Alzheimer’s but luckily he went peacefully in is sleep

@Allira .. in my experience with my Dad in 2019 it didn't happen .. the nurse said they could only give him so much morphine and medazolam when he was still writhing in agony and they couldn't give him any more, that was weeks before he died. He couldn't drink or eat for the last 5-6 weeks and we could only moisten his mouth with the little spongy lolly things. It was truly horrendous what he went through

nanna8

What a sick comment. I’m talking about large doses of morphine to terminally ill people here to alleviate their pain. It kills them. I am absolutely shocked at what you said.

We know it happens, sending relatives home for a rest, saying they will make the patient more comfortable, then half an hour later comes the call to say they are out of their prolonged agony and it is a blessed relief.

It's better than the withdrawal of food and fluids, even water.

What a sick comment. I’m talking about large doses of morphine to terminally ill people here to alleviate their pain. It kills them. I am absolutely shocked at what you said.

nanna8

I think ‘unofficially’ it has been happening for a while with seriously ill patients in their last few days but you are not meant to talk about it. I know here it has and I would support that. I neither trust nor feel comfortable with elective deaths. Too many imponderables.

You support murder but not assisted suicide. How warped

I think ‘unofficially’ it has been happening for a while with seriously ill patients in their last few days but you are not meant to talk about it. I know here it has and I would support that. I neither trust nor feel comfortable with elective deaths. Too many imponderables.

Mollygo

HousePlantQueen

Mollygo
Much easier than improving palliative care. I’m sure KS is congratulating himself on another money saving venture.
What a nasty and cruel comment.

You don't think it’s easier?

I must say the thought did cross my mind, especially with the crisis in hospice funding which will only worsen due to the Budget.

However, I don't think for one minute that is actually the reason for Starmer and Reeves voting for this Bill. I am sure they have thought long and hard about it.

Having bone cancer, and the pain slowly increasing, I was happy to hear that this bill had been passed today.
I have a DNR ( do not resuscitate) form and amended by a Sue Ryder nurse that says I would welcome palliative care, and to be kept pain free.
I have to believe that my wishes will be followed, as I do not want to die, fighting pain.

HousePlantQueen

Mollygo
Much easier than improving palliative care. I’m sure KS is congratulating himself on another money saving venture.
What a nasty and cruel comment.

You don't think it’s easier?

Mollygo

Much easier than improving palliative care. I’m sure KS is congratulating himself on another money saving venture.

What a nasty and cruel comment.

Aveline

My suspicion is that people have been quietly helped on their way for years. Morphine is known to suppress breathing. Large doses can dull the pain then...

Yes.
"Making your dying relative more comfortable" is, we think, a euphemism which we heard more than once about a dying relative in hospital. Something for which we were all thankful as their agony was unbearable.

Kalu I saw it.