Elon Musk giving Reform $100m

Well that an unintentional shame, but how patronising is it to suggest one section of the community is easily controlled by ads etc. And another is so completely and utterly sure they are not

No one has actually said that, except for you. Its not an either/or.

However, why do you think they pay millions and millions of dollars in the USA except in the knowledge that they can and do influence people

Willow
you were quite happy to ....

No I stated a fact. Just as Facebook (mark Z) confirm they did a similar thing.

But still you too are missing the point.

I am pointing out that no one, and it appears that for you it needs saying clearly, including me can rest on their laurels, using the same sources of old.
Which actually all rely on the same ground swell of information.

It's just not enough any more to quote someone from a newspaper or trust a untrustworthy platform.

I cant really see how my point is unreasonable.

We are all fair game to being manipulated by those who have the power to do so.

Those who are most vulnerable to this are those who refuse to accept it happens in their group also.

This is my core point.

MaizieD

Namsnanny

LizzieDrip

Namsnanny the people I’m paraphrasing are three highly respected political journalists who deliver the Secret Agents podcast. They are Emily Maitliss, John Sopel & Lewis Goodall.

They speak through experience and considered research, not hyperbole.

The way that Cambridge Analytica gathered Facebook data and used it to create psychological profiles is no longer in dispute.

Vote Leave used profiling data to digitally target specific groups during the Brexit campaign, thereby giving more power to the message, i.e. if I know someone is already concerned about immigration (for example) I target them on Facebook with propaganda about immigration.

Fine, you don’t want to believe it - that’s your prerogative.

Funny you missed the point entirely.

1) respected people have been known to lie, use propaganda to further their agenda from all sides of the political spectrum.

2) I didn't indicate I disbelieve the possibility that Brexit voters were targeted with mind controlling ads or information.

My point is
anyone even Remain voters, in fact all fractions, not only could be but most likely will be equally targeted and become the focus of a a controlling group who stand to gain from a certain outcome.

Left right lib, any group at all is vulnerable to this type of reinforced group think.

I'm still surprised that you in this case cannot pull back from the commitment you have to your perspective enough to evaluate what those around you are saying.

Critical thinking and evaluation of the veracity of the material we consume is vital to having individual thoughts .

Unless we are prepared to look clearly at information intended to soothe our souls rather than tell us cold hard truths, we are always doomed to be easily controlled by those who can.

I want a very big eye rolling emoji.

Do you know how patronising you sound?

If the cap fits ...

Namsnanny you stated, I quote

BTW Google have signed an agreement to pass any info the CIA want, over to them. Also they will shadow ban any info the CIA want hidden

You give no source whatsoever and above just re claimed its a "Fact".

Well that an unintentional shame, but how patronising is it to suggest one section of the community is easily controlled by ads etc. And another is so completely and utterly sure they are not?

Not patronising at all.

Advertising has been thoroughly researched from all angles for decades and the conclusion is that it is a powerful and highly medium. That is why companies and individuals are happy to pay what must amount over all to £billions to the advertising industry each year.

Anyone who suggests that they are not influenced by advertising is probably unaware of their susceptibility to it. Or deliberately isolates themselves from modern life.

highly influential medium

MaizieD

^Well that an unintentional shame, but how patronising is it to suggest one section of the community is easily controlled by ads etc. And another is so completely and utterly sure they are not?^

Not patronising at all.

Advertising has been thoroughly researched from all angles for decades and the conclusion is that it is a powerful and highly medium. That is why companies and individuals are happy to pay what must amount over all to £billions to the advertising industry each year.

Anyone who suggests that they are not influenced by advertising is probably unaware of their susceptibility to it. Or deliberately isolates themselves from modern life.

The argument I'm making isn't about how effective ads are, or worse propaganda is. Or worse still lies easily believed because of the targeted campaigns.

That had long been accepted as a tool for the nefarious to use.

Once again it is how one group seem to think only the other is swayed by it.
It is consistently promulgated that Brexit voters were targeted and were gullible enough to be influenced by it.

But the same people never indicate where they were at best targeted, and at worst fell for it. Why?

That is patronising.

Well the Russians interfered with our politics during Brexit, Murdoch and other media moguls have been doing it for decades, and now Musk.
I think is high time we realised that whichever government we get they are puppets to the same paymasters.

I wonder ifTrump is behind this.. he's very pally with Farage

@Namsnanny,
It was in fact those who voted Brexit who fell for the most audacious lies, not all, because there were those who had already decided they wanted Brexit for reasons other than stopping immigrants. But remainers didn’t need to be courted by the media in the same way, they knew what being in the EU was all about and simply didn’t want to leave. Their votes were not in question. Project fear was floated as propaganda but seeing as most of what remainers predicted has come to fruition I think we can debunk that myth.
Everything Farage/Boris et al promised about Brexit didn’t happen. Certainly nobody is now pretending it stopped immigrants coming here, in fact it made the problem worse. And the NHS is certainly no better off, nor are the fishermen or farmers.
But we all fall for propaganda, myself included, there is nothing to feel bad about with regard to this, but we need to understand that we could be being subjected to the old smoke and mirrors act and be careful to never believe anything a politician says.

Namsnanny you stated, I quote

BTW Google have signed an agreement to pass any info the CIA want, over to them. Also they will shadow ban any info the CIA want hidden

You give no source whatsoever and above just re claimed its a "Fact".

pascal30

I wonder ifTrump is behind this.. he's very pally with Farage

Indeed.
Farage has in fact spent more time stateside with Trump and Musk than as an MP in Clacton.
Am not sure if this means Farage is interfering in US politics or Trump and Musk are interfering in ours.
Either way is bad.

Babs03

@Namsnanny,
It was in fact those who voted Brexit who fell for the most audacious lies, not all, because there were those who had already decided they wanted Brexit for reasons other than stopping immigrants. But remainers didn’t need to be courted by the media in the same way, they knew what being in the EU was all about and simply didn’t want to leave. Their votes were not in question. Project fear was floated as propaganda but seeing as most of what remainers predicted has come to fruition I think we can debunk that myth.
Everything Farage/Boris et al promised about Brexit didn’t happen. Certainly nobody is now pretending it stopped immigrants coming here, in fact it made the problem worse. And the NHS is certainly no better off, nor are the fishermen or farmers.
But we all fall for propaganda, myself included, there is nothing to feel bad about with regard to this, but we need to understand that we could be being subjected to the old smoke and mirrors act and be careful to never believe anything a politician says.

But we all fall for propaganda myself included ...

We are singing from the same hymn sheet Babs

We need to be careful we could be subjected to the old smoke and mirrors act and be careful to never believe anything a politician says ....

Well never say never, but definitely apply some thought to what is said, or more importantly, done in our name.

How do you protect yourself from being hoodwinked, Babs?

Indeed. as per discussed above on 'influence"

I think it pretty clear that to use terms discussed above, (nefarious")

a foreign citizen close to Trump, Musk, who has already tried to sow disruption in out country at several key points - (the southport riots, the ludicrous rumour about the police visiting the petition signatories, and more)

- his intentions, discussed with Trump or not, are "nefarious" in giving Reform/Farage 75 million pounds for propaganda to use now,

a foreign state representative attempting to interfere with our politics.

and we shouldn't allow it, not to any political party.

Farage has been actively courting this for months, clear as daylight.

To answer re what you ask of babs namsnanny

One thing that matters in discussions is when we state something as fact, we give a clear and as reliable origin as possible so that any reader can check out the source themselves, have an opinion, find alternatives, and so on.

Once again it is how one group seem to think only the other is swayed by it.
It is consistently promulgated that Brexit voters were targeted and were gullible enough to be influenced by it.

Well, if you can't acknowledge the power of advertising I can't help you.

I don't think that the Leave campaigns' £millions spent on dark adverts were wasted.

Remain voters were never targeted, as others have pointed out.

It wasn’t so much the adverts or was the continual
propaganda on the media, lies that many wanted to believe. Cameron was negligent he did very little and thought remain would win easily.

MaizieD

^Once again it is how one group seem to think only the other is swayed by it.^
It is consistently promulgated that Brexit voters were targeted and were gullible enough to be influenced by it.

Well, if you can't acknowledge the power of advertising I can't help you.

I don't think that the Leave campaigns' £millions spent on dark adverts were wasted.

Remain voters were never targeted, as others have pointed out.

If you can't acknowledge the power of advertising I can't help you ...

Good grief have you even read my answers?
How can you formulate that as a reply if you had?

Help me with what?

David I agree.

That’s how / why profiled, targeted propaganda works so well - different messaging is pitched at a specific groups who already have a concern about that particular issue. It’s proven to be highly effective, and worked ‘perfectly’ for Brexit

IMO the Remain campaign (if there even was one) was totally ineffective. I think the remain camp were complacent - thinking ‘it will never happen so we don’t need to bother campaigning too much’. How wrong they were!

I admit, I thought the UK population would never vote to leave the EU, so I put myself in that camp. How wrong was I

Babs03

@Namsnanny,
It was in fact those who voted Brexit who fell for the most audacious lies, not all, because there were those who had already decided they wanted Brexit for reasons other than stopping immigrants. But remainers didn’t need to be courted by the media in the same way, they knew what being in the EU was all about and simply didn’t want to leave. Their votes were not in question. Project fear was floated as propaganda but seeing as most of what remainers predicted has come to fruition I think we can debunk that myth.
Everything Farage/Boris et al promised about Brexit didn’t happen. Certainly nobody is now pretending it stopped immigrants coming here, in fact it made the problem worse. And the NHS is certainly no better off, nor are the fishermen or farmers.
But we all fall for propaganda, myself included, there is nothing to feel bad about with regard to this, but we need to understand that we could be being subjected to the old smoke and mirrors act and be careful to never believe anything a politician says.

I didnt fall for any propaganda! i knew for sure I wanted to vote out before any politician had uttered one word. In fact I barely listened to any of the arguments for or against as I knew exactly how I felt about the EU. I do think the words “fell for the most audacious lies” is very patronising.

Those who doubt the power of advertising need to dig a bit deeper.

Go back a good few years, social media is now as influential as subliminal advertising was, and before that brainwashing.

If susceptible people hear something enough times they start to believe it is true.

It’s all rather interesting and just a tad scary!

BevSec

Just out of interest, why were you so set on leaving ? What have you personally gained from Brexit?

BevSec This is a genuine question. If you didn't listen to any arguments about Brexit, how did you form an opinion? What was inside you as a person which made you think that leaving was the correct decision? I'm genuinely baffled. I remember listening to all the arguments and weighing up the pros and cons. I voted to remain, but I did recognise the arguments against and I balanced the arguments. I just don't really understand how anybody can make an important decision without considering all sides of an argument.

Look at how often posts on Gn include totally unverified, and often proven incorrect information on all kinds of topics.

If youwant to know just how secret money funds British politics I recommend reading Democracy for Sale by Peter Geoghegan, It was published in 2023, so is slightly out of date, but it is frightening.

It starts with explaining why the Democratic Unionist Party (the late Rev Ian Paisley's party) had the party name on Brexit material distributed in the Sunderland (north East England) constituency during campaigning for the Brexit referendum.

PS. Some of the lies from the Leave camp were audacious. Glad you didn't fall for them!