Aiming to be Christmas No.1

Wyllow3

I definitely feel we should not stop campaigning for putting right the levels at which WFA should be set. I've been on at my Labour MP for ages.

I say this because although I agree about higher pensions I think its unrealistic atm, but they could change the WFA cut off points.

As things are, its good to be informed about charities and hardship grants but they shouldn't replace WFA for those who need it.

Not so sure about that. IMO WFA should be abolished completely and added to the state pension. For people over the tax threshold, it would then gradually be taxed back until those with over a certain amount of income would receive nothing.

theworriedwell

As for spurious arguments the original post says, "A charity single to the tune of Mud’s It’s Lonely Christmas, raising money for pensioners in the U.K." Note the "for pensioners" well I'm a pensioner and they aren't raising it for me so I object to my status as a pensioner being used as some emotional trigger to make a political point.

Pensions should be enough for pensioners to live without being charity cases.

I'd go slightly further than you. I'm a pensioner and I'm in that group who just miss out on Pension Credit by a few pounds. I've certainly missed not having the WFT, but I'm not starving nor freezing.

Like you, I object very strongly to (as you say) 'being used as some emotional trigger to make a political point'. Maybe these people could campaign for all people at the bottom of the financial pile to be treated better and for comments about the feckless poor etc to be challenged.

In the past, people have produced songs and done other fundraising activities to raise money for the work 'Help the Aged' does, but I'm not aware that the political messaging was so blatant.

I definitely feel we should not stop campaigning for putting right the levels at which WFA should be set. I've been on at my Labour MP for ages.

I say this because although I agree about higher pensions I think its unrealistic atm, but they could change the WFA cut off points.

As things are, its good to be informed about charities and hardship grants but they shouldn't replace WFA for those who need it.

Casdon

Oil fired boilers don’t work in power cuts either, for the same reason. One of my neighbours used to have an ancient oil fired Rayburn, which did still work - not sure if the modern equivalent would though.

I think the older solid fuel ranges which did radiators too worked on gravity feeding the CH system, not an electric pump. We had a Rayburn like that in a house we had 30+ years ago. It wasn't particularly brilliant, I have to say, but at least it kept the kitchen nice and warm and I could cook on it...

Maybe people should be campaigning about the level of pensions rather than wanting a charity record to pay their bills. As I said above we should be paying pensions at a level where people don't need WFA or pension credit.

Of course some "lady of the manor" types like to feel superior and patronise the poor. We'd be robbing of their opportunity to revel in their generosity if everyone had enough. Let's share the resources out properly.

If you read the comments on the Facebook page of the song it's quite clear the intention is to get on the "punish KS" not the money raising.

(In fact its hardly mentioned)

Some go straight to the point "Vote Reform"

Many of the difficulties mentioned for us pensioners face pre-date this current government. (Savings/assets gone into care after lifetime of work etc).

Oil fired boilers don’t work in power cuts either, for the same reason. One of my neighbours used to have an ancient oil fired Rayburn, which did still work - not sure if the modern equivalent would though.

Allira

^I object to the begging bowl for "pensioners" as plenty of us don't want/need charity^.

Benefits are not begging bowls

Many of us raise money for charity in fact.
There are some pensioners who do need more help, I hope I can recognise that even if I, at this moment at least, do not.

I've just said benefits aren't charity, I'm talking about this record raising money for us poor pensioners.

Maybe you missed this in my post "Pensions should be enough for pensioners to live without being charity. cases." I'm all for dignity and just because someone is old they shouldn't have to rely on charity

Casdon

Allira

Casdon

Allira

Driving through a nearby village, the smoke from all the log burners seems to just hang around in the valley.

Does anyone use oil now?

Yes, but a lot of people are moving away from oil because it’s expensive, life limited, and another pollutant. There are not many options.

We had oil central heating in our first house but were able to change to gas and I still remember it was quite expensive to change over all those years ago.

I don’t know if gas supplies to villages are still being established now, I’d guess not, because there isn’t a long term future for it. If there had been the option to have gas years ago we would have done, but were too far out of town. We have electric central heating, and the new boiler installed about 5 years ago, as after 25 years the old one died, is very economical, the electricity bills compared with when we had the old storage electric boiler have reduced by half. It’s fine when there aren’t power cuts, which happen frequently, hence the log burner.

Gas boilers are no use when there are electricity cuts as the boiler won't run without the electricity. We've kept a gas hob so if all else fails we can have hot food/drinks and sit in the kitchen. It happens quite regularly here.

I object to the begging bowl for "pensioners" as plenty of us don't want/need charity.

Benefits are not begging bowls

Many of us raise money for charity in fact.
There are some pensioners who do need more help, I hope I can recognise that even if I, at this moment at least, do not.

As for spurious arguments the original post says, "A charity single to the tune of Mud’s It’s Lonely Christmas, raising money for pensioners in the U.K." Note the "for pensioners" well I'm a pensioner and they aren't raising it for me so I object to my status as a pensioner being used as some emotional trigger to make a political point.

Pensions should be enough for pensioners to live without being charity cases.

Allira

Casdon

Allira

Driving through a nearby village, the smoke from all the log burners seems to just hang around in the valley.

Does anyone use oil now?

Yes, but a lot of people are moving away from oil because it’s expensive, life limited, and another pollutant. There are not many options.

We had oil central heating in our first house but were able to change to gas and I still remember it was quite expensive to change over all those years ago.

I don’t know if gas supplies to villages are still being established now, I’d guess not, because there isn’t a long term future for it. If there had been the option to have gas years ago we would have done, but were too far out of town. We have electric central heating, and the new boiler installed about 5 years ago, as after 25 years the old one died, is very economical, the electricity bills compared with when we had the old storage electric boiler have reduced by half. It’s fine when there aren’t power cuts, which happen frequently, hence the log burner.

Allira

theworriedwell

GrannyGravy13

For balance if it was the Conservatives who had withdrawn the WFA, and this song parodied them I would also be supportive of it.

Are those who are against the song and therefore must be against it raising money for AGE U.K. also against the re-release of the Band Aid fortieth anniversary release of Do They Know it’s Christmas?

Are you against any fund raising song/event, or just those which point out the failings of the Labour Government?

The Marsh family were rather prevalent with their tunes against the Conservatives, which were applauded here on GN.

Well there is a lot of publicity against the Band Aid record, white saviours patronising Africans. Well I don't want to be a patronised pensioner. Raise money for the poor but the idea that all pensioners need charity is ridiculous and insulting.

Raise money for the poor but the idea that all pensioners need charity is ridiculous and insulting.

No-one is saying that.
Another spurious argument.

As for charity - do you consider any Government benefit to be charity then?
Perhaps you're in a position to refuse to accept your State Pension which is classed as a benefit but most aren't.

Really, I despair!!

No I don't regard benefits, pensions or other, as charity. I object to the begging bowl for "pensioners" as plenty of us don't want/need charity.

GrannyGravy13

theworriedwell nobody is forcing you to be a patronised pensioner nor are you being forced to accept if offered any of the proceeds of this record if offered.

I do not begrudge AGE U.K. the proceeds of this single, nor the pensioners who will receive help from it.

If it is being sold as to raise money for pensioners because we have lost the WFA I am being patronised whether I need it/take it/want it.

People who need help can apply for pension credit, ask their power supplier for help or ask their local authority for help which the local authority have been given money for.

Allira

Casdon

Allira

Driving through a nearby village, the smoke from all the log burners seems to just hang around in the valley.

Does anyone use oil now?

Yes, but a lot of people are moving away from oil because it’s expensive, life limited, and another pollutant. There are not many options.

We had oil central heating in our first house but were able to change to gas and I still remember it was quite expensive to change over all those years ago.

When I was married, we lived in a house with oil heating. There was no gas supply in the village. I certainly would have considered that, if I were buying again.

4allweknow

With minus 3° at 10 am today where I live I have no option but to keep heating on all day long. Not worth while shutting down as takes even longer to maintain 20° . I am ond if those who would be considered to be comfortable but not at such low temperatures. I have no bus service to escape to a shopping centre/warm space type place so have to drive. Save on heating v cost of petrol and parking. Or, just let the energy bill go skyhigh but be warm. Yes, a bit more compassion for those not fitting into Government schemes.

I trust you don't only mean those who have had the WFT withdrawn. For all anybody knows, they could have been the people who spent all their money on their nails and eyebrows and had massive TVs and the latest smartphone when they were younger and didn't save for old age. Ironically, it's quite common on GN to pull such people to pieces, but as soon as they turn pension age, they suddenly become victims.

I'm afraid I find the virtue signalling a tad nauseating. I'm not an 'alright Jack', but I can't help thinking that the constant criticism is more an opportunity to knock Labour rather than genuine compassion for the poor.

Casdon

Allira

Driving through a nearby village, the smoke from all the log burners seems to just hang around in the valley.

Does anyone use oil now?

Yes, but a lot of people are moving away from oil because it’s expensive, life limited, and another pollutant. There are not many options.

We had oil central heating in our first house but were able to change to gas and I still remember it was quite expensive to change over all those years ago.

Yes, a bit more compassion for those not fitting into Government schemes.
Absolutely!

Sadly, many posts appear to be rather smug, for want of a better word.

With minus 3° at 10 am today where I live I have no option but to keep heating on all day long. Not worth while shutting down as takes even longer to maintain 20° . I am ond if those who would be considered to be comfortable but not at such low temperatures. I have no bus service to escape to a shopping centre/warm space type place so have to drive. Save on heating v cost of petrol and parking. Or, just let the energy bill go skyhigh but be warm. Yes, a bit more compassion for those not fitting into Government schemes.

Allira

Driving through a nearby village, the smoke from all the log burners seems to just hang around in the valley.

Does anyone use oil now?

Yes, but a lot of people are moving away from oil because it’s expensive, life limited, and another pollutant. There are not many options.

Driving through a nearby village, the smoke from all the log burners seems to just hang around in the valley.

Does anyone use oil now?

Rosie51

Allira

There are quite a few log burners around here but aren't they now considered to be bad for the environment?

www.theecoexperts.co.uk/news/log-burners-environment

according to this article, very bad.

If you live in a rural area there is little alternative, and provided you comply with the regulations you are fine to use a log burner.
uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/reports/cat09/1901291307_Ready_to_Burn_Web.pdf

Thank goodness for thoughts and support for pensioners. Kier is going to bring us all down so much for us working all our life to hopefully enjoy retirement no spare money for pleasure

Just listenedto the song on You Tube. Absolutely brilliant! Let's hope it makes Christmas number 1

Allira

There are quite a few log burners around here but aren't they now considered to be bad for the environment?

www.theecoexperts.co.uk/news/log-burners-environment

according to this article, very bad.