Dan Neidle has changed his mind on IHT for Farmers

growstuff - I thought that about Blair - I remember saying to a friend "well the Tories win either way" during the election.

If they pass the land to their children, 7 years before they die, they pay nothing.
The 3 million pounds tax benefit is an insult to the rest of us who work hard and cannot pass our inheritance to our children tax free. They certainly don't need more.
And what happens if the children are not interested in farming? They don't pay inheritance tax and sell it while the rest of us do. No, this takes away attention from tax thieves in our country who put their money in tax havens like the King's wind farm investments. And the huge amounts is tax relief claimed by the Dukes.

I have been picking up on the moving closer to the EU proposal which may impact yet again on our fisheries and farming. So change again is in the air.

I'm not at all sure where this thread is going, if anywhere at all.

It would be very welcome to increase farm profitability but that would mean increased food prices, previous payment schemes have been based on the area of crops grown ensuring a better farm income and maintain low food prices.
Now we have a system where low food prices are supplemented by environmental payments, because crops are grown at a loss, income can only be maintained from environmental schemes.

This means that large estates with high overheads have put the whole acreage into long term environmental schemes and don’t produce any crops or livestock. Going back to a production based system would stop that.

As for comparability with the EU the main obstacle is they would insist on supervising the UK rules, maybe in the future but not for some time yet, some EFTA countries like Norway farming is excluded from CAP.

Excuse typos please.

I think farms that have been in families for generations perhaps should have some sort of exemption

That seems a sensible idea.

If a family continues farming on the family farm then even paying a 20% pa IHT charge, when profit margins are extremely slim, could mean the family being forced off the land they have farmed for generations.

Obiously profiteering from productive farmland is wrong, especially if it is being used for purposes other than foo production.

This seems like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Ill-thought through.

As for hospices - Reeves needs to rethink that and make exemptions for the increase employers' NI contributions.

I don't think you are being naive sankev. It seems like the germ of an idea. I wonder if it could be used as a transitional phase for those whose owners are already very elderly?

The government's plan will not only stop the price of farms being pushed up when they are used as a tax wrapper but should also bring that cost down making farming more viable. I do hope we hear before two long that the government are offering subsidies more in line with the EU too.

Personally I have some sympathy for farmers. I think farms that have been in families for generations perhaps should have some sort of exemption and perhaps a clause saying should they sell the farm within a certain time then they should pay the IHT. Recently bought farms that aren’t being farmed by the families that have bought them should pay! I’m probably being naive and don’t really understand the ins and outs so probably not really a viable solution. But I strongly believe we need our farmers especially in this very unstable world we now live in. So anyone who can find a more workable solution should be listened to.

PoliticsNerd

I still feel the wrong battle is bring fought and that 100% IHT should be in place. Currently, the use of farmland as an IHT tax avoidence wrapper it skewing the value of farms and depressing farm growth.

The battle to fight is surely that no farmer should be as badly paid as our currently are? I wonder if righting that wrong is simpler than I first though. Farm subsidies paid for how the land is used, not simply for owning it would be a start. Also completion of the UK-EU veterinary agreement and a move toward bringing our agri-food agreements into line with the EU.

I totally agree politics nerd, in Gloucestershire one wealthy farmer paid some staff to go on the protest in London.

Coverage of the news and details have been very thin on the ground indeed in terms of what we are discussing, just done a google and this very discussion on GN comes up third! Can't find a full newspaper reference.

I'd suggest the lack in both newspapers and the BBC is because there is still a lack of clarity on the details, their effects, and we dont know what will happen to the new proposals.

I've given up watching the national news, as I've thought for a long time you don't get the full story. The BBC news website is better, but not as good as the independents. As for newspapers, I haven't read a newspaper for years.

Doodledog I ageee if the farm in its entirety is being passed down the generations and continues to be a working farm I agree no IHT should be levied.

If it is sold outside of the family the. iHT should be paid albeit on a sliding scale.

If we have to have IHT in the U.K. I am in favour of a sliding scale for all who are in the catchment

Removing the 50% discount on IHT when a farm is sold (although it’s more than that as the point at which it kicks in is so much higher) in return for a nil rate when it is passed on in the family as a working farm seems sensible to me.

It will prevent the likes of Clarkson from profiteering, whilst allowing genuine farmers to keep the land in the family. If it is being sold as a non-farm, or to a different farmer (ie being sold simply as a land sale, rather than passed down the generations), there is no reason I can think of why the tax shouldn’t be paid by the heirs, and at the same rate as everyone else.

Wyllow3

"I've read his latest article. He hasn't changed his stance on people buying agricultural land to avoid IHT - I expect he has first-hand experience of that.

Where he has shifted is in accepting that some farms and families will be very badly affected and he's made some suggestions for solutions, which might stop the IHT loophole for non-farmers, while keeping small family farms in the family."

Sounds good to me.

It’s not so much the “small” family farms that are worst hit its the larger commercial family farms, they produce most of the food in the UK. The profitability of food production is just not enough to pay back loans to cover IHT

Rosie51 I don’t wish to sound disrespectful but we can study proposals until the cows come home. There are no signs at all that this government will budge on the path it first steps itself on. Private schools have now employed Lord Panick (good name) so instead of tractors on the lawn, legal experts might be more effective for farmers.

I haven't studied them in detail so I'm reluctant to make any solid pronouncements, but I 'think' in principle I agree. Certainly with the proposal that working farms should pass without inheritance tax, if I've understood that correctly. (As I say I've not had time to study the detail)

Rosie51

NotSpaghetti

Rosie51 apparently more detailed info has just come to light.
It was info he didn't have first time.

The information was available, he didn't bother to find it because it didn't fit his agenda. It's often the way. There were so many on this site who just said if their heirs had to pay IHT why shouldn't farmers' heirs. There was nil understanding of how farms and farming works, and how different it is to leaving a big house that will be sold to benefit one or more heirs, whereas small farms pass from farmer parent to farmer child to continue to be farmed.

So what do you think of his and the IFT's recent suggestions?

NotSpaghetti

Rosie51 apparently more detailed info has just come to light.
It was info he didn't have first time.

The information was available, he didn't bother to find it because it didn't fit his agenda. It's often the way. There were so many on this site who just said if their heirs had to pay IHT why shouldn't farmers' heirs. There was nil understanding of how farms and farming works, and how different it is to leaving a big house that will be sold to benefit one or more heirs, whereas small farms pass from farmer parent to farmer child to continue to be farmed.

Rosie51 apparently more detailed info has just come to light.
It was info he didn't have first time.

"I've read his latest article. He hasn't changed his stance on people buying agricultural land to avoid IHT - I expect he has first-hand experience of that.

Where he has shifted is in accepting that some farms and families will be very badly affected and he's made some suggestions for solutions, which might stop the IHT loophole for non-farmers, while keeping small family farms in the family."

Sounds good to me.

growstuff

Allira

growstuff

petal53

I wasn’t saying anything about Syria. I was talking about the farmers and IHT, which is what the thread is about.

I didn't watch the BBC News, but I agree with their priorities.

You're not worried about food production and air miles then?

Of course, but it's hardly breaking news. What's happening in Syria is.

I think the problem with BBC News is that they'll spend 20 minutes on one news item and skip briefly through others they think might need a nod.

Allira

growstuff

petal53

I wasn’t saying anything about Syria. I was talking about the farmers and IHT, which is what the thread is about.

I didn't watch the BBC News, but I agree with their priorities.

You're not worried about food production and air miles then?

Of course, but it's hardly breaking news. What's happening in Syria is.

ronib

growstuff didn’t the country sleepwalk in despair to Labour?

I haven't a clue. What I do know is that there is a significant percentage of the population which is taken in by snake oil salespeople. I wouldn't dare call the 'simples'.

growstuff

petal53

I wasn’t saying anything about Syria. I was talking about the farmers and IHT, which is what the thread is about.

I didn't watch the BBC News, but I agree with their priorities.

You're not worried about food production and air miles then?