Thames Water. What a depressing future

To many houses being built, can’t cope with the overwhelming supply from small reservoirs

Just like a large bank TW is too big to fail, investors know that, the water has to keep flowing, either bail them out or buy them out, there is no third option

Successive government have been convinced they can give services on the cheap they can’t, sooner or later we will have to bite the bullet and pay the real cost.

My husband was a consultant in the water industry before retirement. Some of his work was in this country for water companies, he was very scathing about their maintenance, though he did help some companies update infrastructure and enable tracking down leaks.
We live right by a river now and it is very obvious when dirty water is being discharged.

MaizieD

It is a failed company. If it weren't responsible for an essential public utility it would go bust and be worthless. With that in consideration the government should nationalise it without any compensation to shareholders and undertake the necessary investment in its infrastructure.

The state investment would contribute to growth in just the same way that private investment would and has the advantage of not having to satisfy any shareholders.

I agree. The whole point of privatisation was to enable investment in infrastructure, but instead of this they borrowed a huge amount and used most of it for shareholder dividends. Nothing has been gained.
I expect the shareholders will moan whatever happens if their cash cow is either privatised or dividends are reduced.

I absolutely agree.Its a scandalous situation.

Full nationalisation is the only answer, a salmon swimming in the Severn suddenly doesn't screech on the brakes because it is entering a different water authority, aquatic life and organisms don't react to borders.

Kalm I'm just wondering how that would work with devolution.

Feargal Sharkey and River Action are fighting to save our rivers before it is too late.

It's not just sewage, it's agricultural and industrial waste polluting our rivers and coastal waters, orly.
As well as plastic.

And south west water is a complete shambles 🤦‍♀️😡

orly

Where I live United Utilities is just as bad, dumping sewage into our rivers and along the coast. It seems that all water companies exist just to pay shareholders massive dividends and bosses masses bonuses. They've not maintained, let alone improved, our infrastructure. It's disgraceful

Welsh Water doesn't have shareholders; it is not-for-profit.

However, it is no better.

Kalm

Having worked and volunteered in the water industry, the problem is the people in power and influence do not understand the "common good" of water. Hydrology, chemistry and biology play an interconnected part.
"For men may come and men may go but I go on forever" Tennyson lays it out nicely in his poem. The commoditisation of water and an associated false scarcity (hose pipe bans) created by the tories in the 80's has been disastrous. What is it people are paying for ?
a good river these days is hard to find (As Fergal sharkey would say) - Or as God would say please be gentle with this water of mine.
Full nationalisation is the only answer, a salmon swimming in the Severn suddenly doesn't screech on the brakes because it is entering a different water authority, aquatic life and organisms don't react to borders. Also pollutants should be measured by absolute mass not as a concentration where dilution can cause false effects. 1ppm may be nothing but a million litres in a small reservoir is a lot. I could go on but no time or space. In canada rainwater is used for toilet flushing. All leaks are addressed by the regulators, we have to fill 20 forms in before a leak can be checked.

I quite agree Kalm, privatisation has failed everyone except shareholders and executives, the companies are worth nothing so should be nationalised without compensation, shareholders & executives have had and continue to have enough money from us.
I wish we could stop saying RR is a failed chancellor, they've only been in power a few months, have had a dire economic situation to deal with and a mostly Tory controlled media who are intent on dissing them at every opportunity

Where I live United Utilities is just as bad, dumping sewage into our rivers and along the coast. It seems that all water companies exist just to pay shareholders massive dividends and bosses masses bonuses. They've not maintained, let alone improved, our infrastructure. It's disgraceful

I don't know why, GG13, but I suspect that Rachel Reeves would ignore my email

MaizieD

As a matter of interest, when Labour nationalised a lot of industries post WW2 and the UK was broke they paid the shareholders with long dated government bonds. So the actual cost of compensating shareholders was the yearly interest paid on the bonds.

In effect, it cost the government very little.

That’s interesting MaizieD

I think you should email Rachel Reeves and Co., to remind them of this, definitely worth their consideration.

I am not against privatisation per se, but I was never in favour of water being privatised.

As a matter of interest, when Labour nationalised a lot of industries post WW2 and the UK was broke they paid the shareholders with long dated government bonds. So the actual cost of compensating shareholders was the yearly interest paid on the bonds.

In effect, it cost the government very little.

I don’t disagree Macadia, it’s the journey that is troubling me. Tightening and enforcing the regulations is essential, but it will cost - and taking Thames Water to court for non compliance when they are on the brink of bankruptcy will end up costing the taxpayer more ultimately.

Kalm

Having worked and volunteered in the water industry, the problem is the people in power and influence do not understand the "common good" of water. Hydrology, chemistry and biology play an interconnected part.
"For men may come and men may go but I go on forever" Tennyson lays it out nicely in his poem. The commoditisation of water and an associated false scarcity (hose pipe bans) created by the tories in the 80's has been disastrous. What is it people are paying for ?
a good river these days is hard to find (As Fergal sharkey would say) - Or as God would say please be gentle with this water of mine.
Full nationalisation is the only answer, a salmon swimming in the Severn suddenly doesn't screech on the brakes because it is entering a different water authority, aquatic life and organisms don't react to borders. Also pollutants should be measured by absolute mass not as a concentration where dilution can cause false effects. 1ppm may be nothing but a million litres in a small reservoir is a lot. I could go on but no time or space. In canada rainwater is used for toilet flushing. All leaks are addressed by the regulators, we have to fill 20 forms in before a leak can be checked.

👏👏👏

Having worked and volunteered in the water industry, the problem is the people in power and influence do not understand the "common good" of water. Hydrology, chemistry and biology play an interconnected part.
"For men may come and men may go but I go on forever" Tennyson lays it out nicely in his poem. The commoditisation of water and an associated false scarcity (hose pipe bans) created by the tories in the 80's has been disastrous. What is it people are paying for ?
a good river these days is hard to find (As Fergal sharkey would say) - Or as God would say please be gentle with this water of mine.
Full nationalisation is the only answer, a salmon swimming in the Severn suddenly doesn't screech on the brakes because it is entering a different water authority, aquatic life and organisms don't react to borders. Also pollutants should be measured by absolute mass not as a concentration where dilution can cause false effects. 1ppm may be nothing but a million litres in a small reservoir is a lot. I could go on but no time or space. In canada rainwater is used for toilet flushing. All leaks are addressed by the regulators, we have to fill 20 forms in before a leak can be checked.

Oh my. This is ridiculous.

More regulations please. The first being a law capping the amount our utility costs can rise.

The Environment Agency, which is supposed to enforce the rules, is toothless because it's been kept short of money for the last 14 years. It can't afford to prosecute the water companies.

Macadia

It isnt possible for government to buy it so could we not pass laws to over-regulate the utility, issuing massive fines for damages? New laws and stricter regulations might pave the way to a buy-back down the road. There must be some way to get this under control for the sake of our country.

There are laws and regulations regarding the water industry, unfortunately they are not adhered to.

Fines are not enough.

It isnt possible for government to buy it so could we not pass laws to over-regulate the utility, issuing massive fines for damages? New laws and stricter regulations might pave the way to a buy-back down the road. There must be some way to get this under control for the sake of our country.

That’s why I feel pessimistic about the future really, I can see it dragging on for years with disputes about its worth, expectations that government will compensate shareholders, infrastructure and environment crises, rock bottom staff morale, and a poor value for money service to customers. It’s really not pretty at all.

Our water should be nationalised. There is no possible argument that can support what we have been landed with.

No, it's not 'technically' worthless but if it weren't for the fact that it is a vital utility it would be out of business, shut up shop...

They got a real bargain when water was privatised and have done little to add value to it.

The newly created, privately owned, water and sewerage companies (WSCs) paid £7.6 billion for the regional water authorities. At the same time, the government assumed responsibility for the sector's total debts amounting to £5 billion and granted the WSCs a further £1.5 billion—a so-called "green dowry"—of public funds.

Perhaps we could just pay 10% of the original purchase price for the 10 water regions.

I can't see anyone else wanting to take it on...

It’s not worthless, it is worth 20% of what its value would be without debt. It has assets, and it has a customer base who are not able to get their supply from anybody else. More has recently been invested to keep it afloat. Here’s the investment profile as of August.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66051555
Please don’t think I want it to stay as a private company, I don’t, but I can’t see it being handed over to the government for free any time soon.

Well, that didn't take long to find. From the Financial Times 17/5/24

Thames Water’s biggest shareholder has written off its investment in the utility in a sign of the escalating financial crisis at the UK’s largest water company.

A Singapore-registered subsidiary of Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System, which holds a 31 per cent stake in Thames Water, said in accounts filed on Friday it would make “a full writedown of [its] investment and loan receivable with accrued interest”.