Is the old two party system coming to an end?

ronib

The economy is not growing under this government. Let’s hope for some improvement soon. There had been signs of economic recovery before the election but the economy now has zero growth.

Hardly surprising, everyone is sitting on their cash because of harder times forecast, no feel good factor at all.

The economy is not growing under this government. Let’s hope for some improvement soon. There had been signs of economic recovery before the election but the economy now has zero growth.

MayBee70

Wyllow3

Far too early to call! too many factors, 2 major ones being obviously how Labour has done, the other one being the Conservative Party's ability to have clear firm policies that attract that "lost" group, right-centrists and can draw a clear line between themselves and Reform.

Yes, to a post above, how on earth is a PLC allowed to stand for parliament?

I think we’ll be waiting a long time fir an answer to that one….

I doubt whether a centre right Tory party would be able to win a working majority, any more than a centre left Labour Party would. Those with stronger views voting for an alternative party like Reform are always going to dilute the vote. It’s unusual for a government to have a large majority I approve of the present one, many others liked Johnson’s large majority and look where that got us.

Wyllow3

Far too early to call! too many factors, 2 major ones being obviously how Labour has done, the other one being the Conservative Party's ability to have clear firm policies that attract that "lost" group, right-centrists and can draw a clear line between themselves and Reform.

Yes, to a post above, how on earth is a PLC allowed to stand for parliament?

I think we’ll be waiting a long time fir an answer to that one….

PR and compulsory voting is no panacea as Australia knows, if the Scots get independance they can choose whatever system they want

I used to be very pro PR until I see the difficulties other countries are running into at the moment. Our system still allows coalitions.

Far too early to call! too many factors, 2 major ones being obviously how Labour has done, the other one being the Conservative Party's ability to have clear firm policies that attract that "lost" group, right-centrists and can draw a clear line between themselves and Reform.

Yes, to a post above, how on earth is a PLC allowed to stand for parliament?

The next election looks like it could be a three way split between Labour, Reform and the Conservatives, with both parties having a similar share of the vote. The Greens and Lib Dems seem to have reached their natural limit and probably won't gain any more votes next time. However, the Lib Dems could actually hold the balance of power if Labour can't get a majority.

Rosie51

But you'd force them vote for somebody, even if there was nobody whose policies met their own standards? Under our present system unless you vote for a major party you might as well not bother as the chance your vote will have any influence is negligible. Bring in a different system to fptp and you'll maybe have a slightly stronger case for enthusiastic encouraging of voting, but compulsion? Never in my book, that way lies dictatorship. Voting today, but what next tomorrow?

Never knew Australia was a dictatorship. Compulsory voting the norm there. Labour are never going to change the voting system when they can get in with not even half the population voting for them. 33% wasn't it.

valdavi

The PR referendum was 2011, the Scottish independence referendum 2014. If we have another referendum to alter the voting system, we'll also need to let the Scots have another won't we? & after Brexit, I can't see either of the main parties keen to go to the country/ies on either of those issues.

This is completely muddled thinking. PR has nothing to do with Scottish Independence nor Brexit. They are not linked.
Also, the easiest way to alienate Scots is to patronise them, which you did with such ease as Paddyanne quite rightly pointed out. It should not be up to Westminster to "allow" a Scottish Referendum on Independence.

Less time spent scoring points off each other would allow politicians to spend some time & investigate why people don't vote & what would make the public feel more involved. Although the last election was odd - Conservatives were not easy to vote for given their record, Reform can look like clowns & some people have never voted Labour & never will, so maybe the low turnout was to be expected.
Agree compulsory voting is not an answer, once you're told you have to vote, before you know where you are they're telling you who to vote for.

One question is bugging me for some time. How can it be allowed, in a democracy, for a party to be run as a PLC? Surely that must be stopped, and donations fully vetted, from UK only, and capped?

Or to vote for none of the parties offered, although as I said previously to understand as far as possible what that meant. Your book isn’t my book, I don’t see dictatorship as a consequence of all eligible voters casting a vote, I see democracy.

But you'd force them vote for somebody, even if there was nobody whose policies met their own standards? Under our present system unless you vote for a major party you might as well not bother as the chance your vote will have any influence is negligible. Bring in a different system to fptp and you'll maybe have a slightly stronger case for enthusiastic encouraging of voting, but compulsion? Never in my book, that way lies dictatorship. Voting today, but what next tomorrow?

Casting your vote is a cornerstone of a democratic society, by not casting a vote you abdicate your right to have a say, at the most fundamental level. That’s why I think everybody should be required to vote, that doesn’t mean they have to vote for a major party though.

So democracy means compulsorily voting for someone/a party you disagree with less than any of the others? Surely democracy is having the right to vote or not vote according to your own wish?

For democracy to work effectively, citizens must vote.

ronib

Monica isn’t it more cowardly to vote for the wrong candidate?

What is the wrong candidate and who decides they are 'wrong'.
Your definition of a wrong candidate might not be mine, unless you mean someone accidentally ticking the wrong box.

Sorry*nanna8*, you do not get it. I should not have go to a polling station to pretend to vote. I should be free to ignore the whole election and spend the whole day locked in my house, or on the beach or shopping if that is what I choose to do. That is democracy.

If you don’t want to vote nothing is stopping you. You either don’t go and may or may not cop a fine or you go and get your name crossed off and then leave without voting. No one cares. In practice the voting rate is around 80 % or so usually.

Monica isn’t it more cowardly to vote for the wrong candidate?

Yes I would refuse to vote too. Compulsory voting appeals to the authoritarians I think.

In a compulsory voting situation, spoiling your vote is the coward's way out.

I know of one person who strikes through the ballot paper with ‘ none of the above’ when appropriate. That counts as a spoiled vote.

MaggsMcG

I agree that compulsory voting is the first step to take. How can you say that a party was what the country voted for when over half the people eligible don't bother to vote at all. If everyone had to vote (as Australia) it would be more of a representative of the country surely. PR might work if compulsory voting was introduced first.

If compulsory voting was introduced, I would refuse to vote, even if it meant imprisonment.

Compulsory voting is a negation of democracy. Democracy is about the individual having the freedom to take part - or not. Compulsory voting takes away that democratic choice to decide whether to participate or not.

I agree that compulsory voting is the first step to take. How can you say that a party was what the country voted for when over half the people eligible don't bother to vote at all. If everyone had to vote (as Australia) it would be more of a representative of the country surely. PR might work if compulsory voting was introduced first.