Southport Murders, latest

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising.

You really are unnecessarily and abominably rude MaizieD. The news and politics forum would be a far better place, and probably frequented and contributed to by more posters, if you could it tone down a bit. It's particularly distasteful in a topic surrounding such an horrific crime where little children died. Please.

srn63, the price for all defendants to be offered a fair trial is the cost we pay for living in this country.
There are citizens in countries all over the world who can only dream of this.
If I, or someone I loved, was accused of a crime, I would want a fair trial, so I must want it for everyone, however heinous the crime and however prolonged and expensive that transpired to be.
There is no alternative in a civilised society.

nanna8

Lynch mob killings were usually committed against innocent people , particularly black people by white people. There is no comparison with this case. There were lots of witnesses and something evil occurred. Anyone who defends a person committing an act like that is pretty sick and needs to take a good hard look at themself.

I’ve seen no posts defending the accused on here.
Or are you suggesting anyone /lawyer who defends this man needs to take a look at themselves?

Sky, CNN, Channel 4, the Independent, ITVX online or YouTube all have headlines stating that the defendant pleaded not guilty.

So accusing a poster of fantasising is not called for. Perhaps take these outlets to task and get them to correct their headlines?

Other news outlets have used the correct terminology.

As I understand it, in the absence of a plea from the accused, the judge has no choice but to enter a not-guilty plea on his behalf in order for a fair trial to take place. Surely the alternative would be no trial and a guilty verdict being reached without any requirement to scrutinise the evidence? It’s a safeguard which operates in the accused’s favour, and ensures a fair trial.

MaizieD

nanna8

Well we were told that he had pleaded ‘not guilty’. Obviously all our news outlets are in error. I wasn’t ‘fantasising’ How rude of you. Totally expected,though.

Read the screenshot on the opening post. The accused said nothing at all. It was the judge who entered the not guilty plea.

So the accused had not pleaded anything.

This is the way misinformation spreads.

It's a fine line and easy to misinterpret.

The defendant has said nothing. A guilty plea cannot be entered on his behalf, obviously.

There was really no need to be rude.

MaizieD

Grunty

There is NO PLEA at all.
Please read the thread before commenting

"Not guilty pleas have been entered on behalf of Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, for the charges of murder of three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class."

Please read the news before the commenting.

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising.

Every news outlet, here and abroad, which is reporting on this case has stated that the accused had a Not Guilty plea entered on his behalf for all the charges.

He refused to speak in court but that does not mean the Not Guily plea was not presented as his wish.
It was reported that this was his fourth court appearance.

nanna8

Well we were told that he had pleaded ‘not guilty’. Obviously all our news outlets are in error. I wasn’t ‘fantasising’ How rude of you. Totally expected,though.

Read the screenshot on the opening post. The accused said nothing at all. It was the judge who entered the not guilty plea.

So the accused had not pleaded anything.

This is the way misinformation spreads.

Totally expected= not guilty plea, not a comment about the poster ! Just to be clear.

Well we were told that he had pleaded ‘not guilty’. Obviously all our news outlets are in error. I wasn’t ‘fantasising’ How rude of you. Totally expected,though.

Allira you say

"Too often now, though, we do find that MH problems are offered by the defence and are been accepted as a valid reason for vicious murders. Sometimes, not always, expert witnesses will not agree about this which confuses the case"

Speaking generally, I'm not sure there has been an increase, rather that we now find out more about it, it's discussed more, as it's natural to ask "why!?"

And sadly, the spates of school shootings in the USA have led us to look at the "lone shooter/attacker" things and we've come much more aware of the "why" and ?

Insanity as a plea, or the presentation of criminal psychiatrists reports have been a feature in the courts for a very long time.

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising

But that's not what your post said. You said There is NO PLEA at all; not that the defendant has made no plea. I wouldn't usually bother with such pedantry but your posts have been so aggressively rude towards posters, who you've no idea of their personal connection to this horrific crime, that I wanted to bring to your attention how unpleasant being on the receiving end of unnecessary rudeness is.

Allira

lemsip

isn't this before the courts currently?

Yes, so probably this thread should be deleted as being possibly prejudicial.

My OP showed information from the first page of BBC News website yesterday afternoon.

I thought it was an apt thread for N & P

Unfortunately it is becoming increasingly difficult to have a conversation on GN on anything political…

I am uncomfortable about this thread, the trial has not started yet.
As Allira said "the thread should probably be deleted as possibly prejudical"

M0nica

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

The murders have happened, your opinion is justified.

We know nothing about the murderer, it is still theoretically possible that they have arrested the wrong person.

Your opinion on the person accused should be suspended until all the circumstances around the case are known and he/she is convicted of murder.

This is what is so disgusting about the lynch mentality, it is an unthinking knee jerk reaction that could kill an innocent person just because someone thinks they might be guilty of killing someone.

You think the police arrested him on a whim then.

lemsip

isn't this before the courts currently?

Yes, so probably this thread should be deleted as being possibly prejudicial.

isn't this before the courts currently?

Grunty

^There is NO PLEA at all.^
Please read the thread before commenting

"Not guilty pleas have been entered on behalf of Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, for the charges of murder of three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class."

Please read the news before the commenting.

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising.

Allira

nanna8

Lynch mob killings were usually committed against innocent people , particularly black people by white people. There is no comparison with this case. There were lots of witnesses and something evil occurred. Anyone who defends a person committing an act like that is pretty sick and needs to take a good hard look at themself.

Absolutely no comparison on here and it's disgraceful to accuse posters of that mentality, but the riots that resulted from these killings were reminiscent of lynch mobs. Had the suspect been around I wonder what would have happened?

Too often now, though, we do find that MH problems are offered by the defence and are been accepted as a valid reason for vicious murders. Sometimes, not always, expert witnesses will not agree about this which confuses the case.

No, I did not need a lecture thank you M0nica and I am not of the lynch mon mentality, nor are posters on here. I doubt any of them were out on the streets rioting.

Lynch mob killings were killings which took place without any legal process. Of course no-one on this thread is calling for a death sentence by lynching.

The point in question is the process,i.e carrying out a sentence with no trial, not the result. Plenty of posters on this thread would, it seems, having judged him guilty, be happy for him to be incarcerated indefinitely with no trial.

When due legal process is abandoned a country starts the downward slide.

Excuse typos.

nanna8

Lynch mob killings were usually committed against innocent people , particularly black people by white people. There is no comparison with this case. There were lots of witnesses and something evil occurred. Anyone who defends a person committing an act like that is pretty sick and needs to take a good hard look at themself.

Absolutely no comparison on here and it's disgraceful to accuse posters of that mentality, but the riots that resulted from these killings were reminiscent of lynch mobs. Had the suspect been around I wonder what would have happened?

Too often now, though, we do find that MH problems are offered by the defence and are been accepted as a valid reason for vicious murders. Sometimes, not always, expert witnesses will not agree about this which confuses the case.

No, I did not need a lecture thank you M0nica and I am not of the lynch mon mentality, nor are posters on here. I doubt any of them were out on the streets rioting.

He has been declared Fit to Stand Trial which means that a certain amount of evaluation has taken place.

But legally this is regarding the trial.

"Fitness to stand trial is a legal concept that's a key principle of a fair trial. It's the defendant's state of mind at the time of the trial, not their mental state at the time of the alleged crime".

There is NO PLEA at all.
Please read the thread before commenting

"Not guilty pleas have been entered on behalf of Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, for the charges of murder of three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class."

Please read the news before the commenting.

Were not playing disgusted Top Trumps.

There is really no need to be so rude.

'Offered' is the correct word. At present through his behaviour he is attempting to avoid trial by refusing to co operate with the process, which may be because of the state of his mental health or a cynical ploy to avoid taking responsibility for his actions.
There are countries where he would not have been offered a trial at all.
I have no doubt mental health issues will be raised when sentencing occurs, as in the case of Valdo Colocane.