Southport Murders, latest

isn't this before the courts currently?

Grunty

^There is NO PLEA at all.^
Please read the thread before commenting

"Not guilty pleas have been entered on behalf of Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, for the charges of murder of three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class."

Please read the news before the commenting.

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising.

Allira

nanna8

Lynch mob killings were usually committed against innocent people , particularly black people by white people. There is no comparison with this case. There were lots of witnesses and something evil occurred. Anyone who defends a person committing an act like that is pretty sick and needs to take a good hard look at themself.

Absolutely no comparison on here and it's disgraceful to accuse posters of that mentality, but the riots that resulted from these killings were reminiscent of lynch mobs. Had the suspect been around I wonder what would have happened?

Too often now, though, we do find that MH problems are offered by the defence and are been accepted as a valid reason for vicious murders. Sometimes, not always, expert witnesses will not agree about this which confuses the case.

No, I did not need a lecture thank you M0nica and I am not of the lynch mon mentality, nor are posters on here. I doubt any of them were out on the streets rioting.

Lynch mob killings were killings which took place without any legal process. Of course no-one on this thread is calling for a death sentence by lynching.

The point in question is the process,i.e carrying out a sentence with no trial, not the result. Plenty of posters on this thread would, it seems, having judged him guilty, be happy for him to be incarcerated indefinitely with no trial.

When due legal process is abandoned a country starts the downward slide.

Excuse typos.

nanna8

Lynch mob killings were usually committed against innocent people , particularly black people by white people. There is no comparison with this case. There were lots of witnesses and something evil occurred. Anyone who defends a person committing an act like that is pretty sick and needs to take a good hard look at themself.

Absolutely no comparison on here and it's disgraceful to accuse posters of that mentality, but the riots that resulted from these killings were reminiscent of lynch mobs. Had the suspect been around I wonder what would have happened?

Too often now, though, we do find that MH problems are offered by the defence and are been accepted as a valid reason for vicious murders. Sometimes, not always, expert witnesses will not agree about this which confuses the case.

No, I did not need a lecture thank you M0nica and I am not of the lynch mon mentality, nor are posters on here. I doubt any of them were out on the streets rioting.

He has been declared Fit to Stand Trial which means that a certain amount of evaluation has taken place.

But legally this is regarding the trial.

"Fitness to stand trial is a legal concept that's a key principle of a fair trial. It's the defendant's state of mind at the time of the trial, not their mental state at the time of the alleged crime".

There is NO PLEA at all.
Please read the thread before commenting

"Not guilty pleas have been entered on behalf of Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, for the charges of murder of three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class."

Please read the news before the commenting.

Were not playing disgusted Top Trumps.

There is really no need to be so rude.

'Offered' is the correct word. At present through his behaviour he is attempting to avoid trial by refusing to co operate with the process, which may be because of the state of his mental health or a cynical ploy to avoid taking responsibility for his actions.
There are countries where he would not have been offered a trial at all.
I have no doubt mental health issues will be raised when sentencing occurs, as in the case of Valdo Colocane.

Lynch mob killings were usually committed against innocent people , particularly black people by white people. There is no comparison with this case. There were lots of witnesses and something evil occurred. Anyone who defends a person committing an act like that is pretty sick and needs to take a good hard look at themself.

This is what is so disgusting about the lynch mentality, it is an unthinking knee jerk reaction that could kill an innocent person just because someone thinks they might be guilty of killing someone.

As far as I know, the death penalty in this country was abolished in 1998.

Allira This was a reference to lynch mob killings, not capital punishment. Lynchings refer to extra judicial killings where baying mobs raid prisons and pull out people accused of crimes and hang them up on the nearest tree, before any trial can prove whether they had committed the crime or not.

It was common in ante-bellum USA until the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, when many African-Americans would be arrested for violent crimes they did not commit and then mobs raided the prisons dragged them out and hanged them.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching

nanna8

Bet your bottom dollar his defence told him to rock up and down to assist with the insanity plea.

There is NO PLEA at all.

Please read the thread before commenting

He is being offered a fair trial, with the opportunity to present his defence, but so far is refusing to co operate in the process.

You make it sound as though he is being done a favour by being 'offered a fair trial'. This is far from the case. Under our law he is entitled to a fair trial. And what is more, under our law he is presumed innocent until proven guilty through a trial in a court of law.

Being caught red handed will no doubt make it easy to establish his guilt but it has to be done by the proper process.

Fortunately our law is indifferent to lynching calls.

As to those complaining about the video link, are they unaware that the court system is absolutely on its knees after years of cost cutting? Had he been taken to a physical court for this short procedure it would not only have cost a great deal more than a video link but there's a pretty strong possibility that the procedure couldn't have gone ahead because a vital member of the court was missing, or the courtroom was unusable because part of the ceiling had fallen in... So he would have been returned to custody, with the whole expensive procedure to be done all over again.

Wyllow3

nanna8

Bet your bottom dollar his defence told him to rock up and down to assist with the insanity plea.

An expert psychiatrist (in fact 2) have to declare insanity and it's a hard one to get accepted. What was described wouldn't count.

nanna8 - I can’t imagine any lawyer advising their client as you describe. Doing the best for their client does not include trying to pervert the course of justice

When this male was arrested there was no doubt that it was he who had committed the murderous attack. He was discovered to have in his possession a downloaded terrorist handbook advising him, among other things, how to evade arrest, and if arrested, how to evade questioning.

He is being offered a fair trial, with the opportunity to present his defence, but so far is refusing to co operate in the process.

Good to hear that Wyllow3 The fact that he has pleaded not guilty has even reached our news here. Pretty unusual for us to hear about something like that .

nanna8

Bet your bottom dollar his defence told him to rock up and down to assist with the insanity plea.

An expert psychiatrist (in fact 2) have to declare insanity and it's a hard one to get accepted. What was described wouldn't count.

petal53

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

Exactly.
That is exactly what disgusts me too.
I fully understand why people feel a lynch mentality even though I do not share it myself.
I do not understand why someone would be more offended by that lynch mentality than they are about the murder of three little girls and attempted murder of eight other children and adults.

Who said anything about more offended? It's possible to be disgusted by both. We're not playing Disgusted Top Trumps.

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

Exactly.
That is exactly what disgusts me too.
I fully understand why people feel a lynch mentality even though I do not share it myself.
I do not understand why someone would be more offended by that lynch mentality than they are about the murder of three little girls and attempted murder of eight other children and adults.

"This means that there will now be a full and fair trial where, I am sure, there will be lengthy discussion of his mental state and all circumstances around this dreadful event."

So long as you are happy to pay for a "full and fair trial"

Bet your bottom dollar his defence told him to rock up and down to assist with the insanity plea.

There’s a limited amount of discussion to be had about this case at this early stage in proceedings. I think we can take it as read that we all share our disgust at what happened, and some dissatisfaction at the refusal of the accused to appear in court in person, or to enter a plea. There will be time to reflect, analyse and discuss when the trial gets underway and we learn more.

HousePlantQueen

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

I can manage to be disgusted at both. This man must have a fair trial, by jury not by public opinion.

No-one has said otherwise have they?

Just as the law needs to be changed regarding convicted prisoners refusing to come to court to hear the judge's sentencing, perhaps defendants should have to appear in court to hear the charges against them.

It's a point for discussion, particularly in the light of the riots resulting from this case.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

So English Law disgusts you. What form of law would you prefer?

Your response to GrannyGravy makes no sense, it's a non-sequitur

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

I can manage to be disgusted at both. This man must have a fair trial, by jury not by public opinion.