Is it ‘bye bye’ then to the Marbles?

Why the Elgin Marbles Must Be Returned to Elgin

by W.N. Herbert

Because they are large, round and bluey and would look good on the top of Lady Hill.
Because their glassy depths would give local kids the impression that they are looking at the Earth from outer space.
Several Earths, in fact, which encourages humility and a sense of relativity.
Because local contractors would use JCBs to play giant marbles in Cooper Park and attract more tourists to Morayshire:
"Monster marble Showdown Time!"
Because the prophesy omitted from the Scottish Play must be fulfilled:
"When the marbles come back to Elgin the mormaer will rise again"
(A mormaer being a Pictish sub-king.
Which Macbeth was, not a thane.
Nor a tyrant, for that matter.
More a sort of Arthur figure, you know, got drunk and married Liza Minelli, with Gielgud as Merlin the butler.)
Because they're just gathering dust in the British Museum, never mind the danger that if someone leans against them they might roll and squash a tourist like a bug.
Because the Greeks, like the rest of Europe, don't know where Scotland is, and so won't be able to find them.
Because if they come looking we can just push the marbles into the Firth off Burghead and show them the dolphins instead.
Greeks like dolphins. Always have.
Because it will entertain the dolphins watching the Elgin marbles roll with the tides and perhaps attract whales.
Because whales can balance the marbles on the tops of their spouts,
then ex-Soviet tourist navies can come
and fire big guns at them
like in a funfair.
Because the people of Morayshire were originally Greek anyway, as proven by Sir Thomas Urquhart in his "Pantochronochanon"
And by the fact that they like dolphins.
Because we are not just asking for them,
we demand their return, and this
may be the marble that sets the heather alight, so to speak.
Because if the Stone of Destiny is
the MacGrae's tooth, then
the Elgin marbles are
the weird sisters' glass eyes.
Because Scotland must see visions again
even if only through
a marble of convenience.

My initial response is always they should be returned. Then I start wondering what else we plundered that should be returned.
My town was king cotton, we have a well regarded Egyptology section in our town. When I visited Egypt our guide escorted us round the pyramids etc and to the museum in Cairo. We had a good natured talk about the Egyptian treasures in our various museums - yes please, we’d like them back here said

It doesn’t look like it is going to happen at least not by Starmer. As Johnson found out it’s not down to our PM but the trustees of the British Museum who will be tied by Trustees Laws set out by Acts of Parliament. Unless those Acts are changed which will have repercussions for many other spheres the trustees probably have their hands tied.

GrannySomerset

The “new” museum in Athens is beautiful and will display the Marbles to perfection so time to be magnanimous and send them home whilst insisting this is not a precedent. The arguments about so much that was collected (and rescued, as were the Marbles) will rumble on for decades.

Very wise word's GrannySomerset. 😊

It looks as though our generation is pretty open to returning the marbles, too, Grammaretto. Not many dissenters on this thread,

I think they are stunning, but I love classical Greek sculpture. I'd enjoy accurate copies just as much.

As examples of blatant thievery fade into old history, it's hard to know who should "give back" what to whom. The Elgin Marbles are a touchy subject, so it's probably best to return them. As for 21st-century apologies for 19th & 20th century wrongs, it gets more complicated. Personally, I don't feel responsible for what my parents did, much less my country's posh blokes of yore.

Yes, they should be returned.

I think they should go back, personally I swerve them when I've visited the British Museum, The Egyptian, Assyrian Rooms and even our ancient Celtic stuff tend to beckon me. I don't find The Marbles as they are displayed there that interesting, but I'm sure they'd be more fascinating in situ around the Acropolis where they belong.

The Elgin Marbles should be returned to Greece .

My young DGS visited the Parthenon last year and is fervently keen that the Marbles must go back to the building which is all ready to receive them.
I am sure his generation will be far more open than ours to returning objects to their country of origin.

This article has a very interesting U tube "short" by Stephen Fry on the return of the marbles and some political context

"https://news.sky.com/story/elgin-marbles-matter-for-british-musuem-no-10-says-as-starmer-and-greek-pm-meet-13266075

Starmer/Downing Street
"It said the government had "no plans to change the law that would permit a permanent move and that the case of decisions relating to the care and management and sculptures are a matter for the trustees of the British Museum, which is operationally independent of the government".
Asked if it would be possible to loan the Elgin Marbles to Athens, the spokesman said: "Those decisions are entirely for the British Museum.""

Wyllow3

Pretty interesting story of their acquisition as it was ?? from the beginning as being legal/ethical
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles

Quite.

I think they should go back. There is no reason why, the state of modern technology being what it is, they can't be replaced with a set of absolutely exact copies. Very few people would appreciate the difference.

They should have been sent back years ago. We would be making a fuss if the boot was on the other foot.

Pretty interesting story of their acquisition as it was ?? from the beginning as being legal/ethical
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles

GrannySomerset

And of course it’s not in the government’s gift to make any offer at all. The British Museum is the custodian and not allowed by its founding charter to dispose of such major pieces, so the whole thing is very complicated.

Indeed. The EU statement was incorrect if it actually mentioned Starmer as being the one who could return it

However - this had got complicated because of Boris Johnsons involvement when he was PM because he did involve himself and said,

"last week British Prime Minister Boris Johnson dismissed Greece’s call to return the Parthenon Marbles to the country, arguing that the 2,500-year-old cultural treasures are “legally owned by the British Museum’s Trustees.” (2021)

greekcitytimes.com/2021/03/16/marbles-belong-parthenon-eu-schinas/

I don't understand enough about them to comment really.

And of course it’s not in the government’s gift to make any offer at all. The British Museum is the custodian and not allowed by its founding charter to dispose of such major pieces, so the whole thing is very complicated.

Definitely give them back.

The “new” museum in Athens is beautiful and will display the Marbles to perfection so time to be magnanimous and send them home whilst insisting this is not a precedent. The arguments about so much that was collected (and rescued, as were the Marbles) will rumble on for decades.

It depends on the circumstances under which artefacts were acquired. If they were given freely as gifts, bought legally or are examples of commonly available items (e.g. pots or flint tools) I see no reason not to keep them.

If they were acquired in other circumstances then they should be returned, provided that they will be safely looked after.

With modern technology, good copies could be made for the public to see. In fact, having copies might encourage people to travel to see the real thing in situ.

Presume that last remark was tongue in cheek Avalon, we ve had a lot of years of their company

We actually paid for the Marbles and probably saved them from destruction. That does not mean they shouldn’t be returned but we did not steal them as such. The controversy is that Greece was then under Turkish rule from the Ottoman Empire so although we legitimately purchased them it was from Turkey and not Greece and the latter do not regard that as legitimate.

So it’s not that simple. I believe the museum in Athens has plaster replicas of the pieces so perhaps it would be a nice gesture to swop them with the real ones held by The British Museum. Plus will we get our purchase price plus interest back?

And any country that wants ‘stolen’ artefacts and asks for the back should be given them

They definitely should go back they are not ours to keep

They should go back.