Why do we not make as much fuss about the 14 year old boys being stabbed as we do about girls being groomed and sexually abused?

Sadly it’s gang warfare.

This is something major cities particularly London need to get on top of.

Different times, different attitudes.

Not the number of one parent families back then, single mums often had father figures for their children in the shape of granddads, uncles, brothers etc. More family support, living at home, not in some council flat.

And society in general had more respect for teachers, police, doctors, clergy etc.

Back then, you wouldn’t have had to have notices up in GP surgeries telling you that staff must not be abused or physically attacked.

It just wasn’t done, or to barge into school swearing at the headmaster and complaining about your child’s teacher.

Progress, I suppose.

Nearly all the kids had both parents at home in the 1950s and 60 s and most were pretty obedient. It was just expected. Then you got all those anti establishment types in the 60 s and that was the end of that. Freedom , if that is what you call it, comes at a price.

I can hardly believe I am saying this as a child of the 60s, but maybe the family structures of say the 50s could do with a return?
Not perfect of course, but a moral, even churchgoing family, taking the family structure seriously would be a big improvement on the mayhem going on today.
And if someone went off the rails, it would be more of an isolated incident. Unconventional people (like me) could still prosper if they did not want to conform,

Idealistic, I know😢

I meant to say censoring violent lyrics seems to go unchecked.

I do agree, boys are at risk from violence, and the tragedy of so many boys lost to knife crime in particular is heartbreaking. There's a horrible casualness surrounding the taking of a young life. Indeed perpetrators seem to regard it as a rite of passage. Some of the culture that surrounds gang life, in particular "drill music" and I use the word music loosely, glorify acts of violence and in particular killing in a most shocking way. I did read somewhere that the MOBOs are rather complicit in the way they endorse some artists. Censoring such violence seems to go unchecked. These young lives lost to knife crime are awful. I feel for the poor mothers and fathers left to grieve for their sons.

I do have a black friend who got the hell out of south London where she grew up, when her little boy was in infants and transplanted herself down to rural Hampshire. She had a job and a salary that enabled her to do that.. Her rationale was she didn't want him sucked into gang culture as he grew older and she knew enough about her homegrown area to know that could be a possibility. .

BlueBelle

These young kids need moving out of London putting on farms or working on land in some way working with animals being away from the temptations and in a quieter environment maybe learning a trade is far better than locking them up
Most are not bad kids they are feral and frightened

It’s a great idea but if they are involved with knife or drug gangs they will seek them out and get them back in their grip.

This is exactly what happened to many of these girls. Attempts were sometimes made to remove them from danger but they have these networks that find them again.

It is the sheer scale of damage done by these mainly Pakistani rape gangs.

Over 2 decades 41 UK Towns have been involved, 396 KNOWN men involved, of which approximately 155 have been released from prison and are living back on our streets, happily enjoying life back with their families who seem not at all bothered about their disgusting crimes.

They are two different, but equally important and tragic issues.

I am concerned about both and many other things, and I’m sure most people are too.

BlueBelle

These young kids need moving out of London putting on farms or working on land in some way working with animals being away from the temptations and in a quieter environment maybe learning a trade is far better than locking them up
Most are not bad kids they are feral and frightened

This is absolutely what is needed.

I should perhaps add that I'm not sure the existence of boy gangs is a scandal. Unless it involves authorities covering their arses as seems to be the case with the grooming gangs scandal.

Is a self fulfilling prophecy, these young boys mainly come from impoverished backgrounds /dysfunctional families where criminality is a way of life, society expects them to fail at school and for no good to come of them, so that is what happens.
If a young white boy from a middle class background were to be stabbed to death it would be a whole different matter, society would mourn the death of a boy they see as being of more ‘worth’.
We might deny this is the case and people are welcome to do so, after all is my opinion, but I do think is backed by facts.
As for banging on about the grooming gangs recruiting young vulnerable girls rather than these boys. At the time it happened nobody said anything about it, it was ignored for way too long, because again these were girls from impoverished backgrounds, often in care. Now, however, is a political football so that is why it is in the headlines all the time

Interesting point, M0n, but I'm not sure "fuss" is the right word.

Anyway, where the boy is seen to be innocent, as in the Stephen Lawrence case, we do make the same amount of "fuss".

While it is tragic that members of boy gangs kill each other, it is a different kettle of fish and needs a concerted but different approach. I'm not sure it is getting the concerted push - sorry, "fuss" - it needs.

Maybe it is the same reason that we talk about women's safety out at night but men are three times more likely to be attacked by a stranger than a woman.

I suspect ‘ordinary’ people worry as much about children, usually boys, being targeted and groomed for county lines. Mr Musk and Robert Jenrick are continuing to dominate the news because of their own agenda’s.

The boys targeted in this way are very similar to the girls targeted for organised child sexual abuse exploitation. They’re usually vulnerable because of their family life. The boys seem more likely to be black or dual heritage, a group more likely to be excluded from school than others their age. Research shows their behaviour is no different from white boys yet exclusion more likely.

RosiesMaw is correct. The underlying problem is the poverty in our support systems for children and their families/carers. How can a 6 year old be permanently excluded from school with no provision and robust follow up be put in place.

Austerity was meant to save public money. As predicted by people working with children and families. It’s costing us financially as well as in the mental health of children and adults.

1. In answer to the question in the title, I think we do
2. Drug gangs and “county lines” are a huge and well publicised problem
3. Both scenarios highlight the weakness of our support system for children’s mental health, children in care, broken homes (often never unbroken), poverty, housing and the impossible and growing demands on our SS.

Because these boys will stab you to death if you get in their way. The girls wouldn’t.
And it’s not just London. It’s all over the country. A little boy was accidentally shot dead in Liverpool a few years ago. Caught in the crossfire.
These boys are seen as a menace who think nothing of extreme violence and murder.
That’s the difference.

BlueBelle
It’s been shown to work. All it needs is the will by a lot of people to work. But sadly I’m not holding my breath.

These young kids need moving out of London putting on farms or working on land in some way working with animals being away from the temptations and in a quieter environment maybe learning a trade is far better than locking them up
Most are not bad kids they are feral and frightened

Human nature.
The girls are seen as victims ( which of course they are) whereas the young black boy is seen as a perpetrator.
His videos are out there glorifying crime, his hatred of the police, his views on women.
Either way each of them got to where they are is wrong. But this is where we are.

I was saddened to read about the death of this young boy but that doesn’t help the situation. An urgent rethink in policy is needed I guess for this very vulnerable group. Maybe foster homes away from London but returning children to the heart of gang warfare isn’t a workable solution.

The grooming gangs continue to dominate the headlines because at the moment they are a political hot potato. I remember being horrified when the story first broke, years ago, to learn that some of these girls were in care, many were classed as 'out of control', and the response from social workers and parents was, well, if they want to go out we can't stop them, This for 13 year olds.
The stabbings of children is horrific, I agree, and again, the result of gang pressure, this area warfare.

On the News the other night, his mother said he seemed to be out of control when he was only 6.

6!

What hope is there when they are lost so young?