Was it in public interest to cover up the terror links to the Southport stabbings?

Starmer did NOTHING to pacify the nation’s anger when the terrible incident first made the news in the summer.
In fact, he did the opposite he punished the nations anger by making an example of ordinary citizens and sending them to prison.

I don’t believe there is any sincerity in what he’s saying now. he’s merely trying to save face over his poor handling of the whole affair and divert attention away from that.

Nobody is fooled by this man’s bluster.

woodenspoon

I’m not naive far from it. The photo the police has published show the evil in this man. No excuses need to be made by apologists for evil.

I thought the photo showed not an evil man but a very seriously and dangerously mentally ill person.

Saying he is mentally ill does not excuse anything he did, or its horror. But his whole story shows someone who was mentally ill and whether he 'qualified' for Prevent or not, I cannot understand why he was not sectioned and kept under preventative rules under mental health legislation.

It would not have been appropriate, indeed it would have amounted to contempt of court, if information about what was found at his home, or his violent background, had been released into the public domain ahead of the trial (or as happened in the event, conviction on a guilty plea). Much as I loathe this government, I don’t agree that there has been a cover-up.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Starmer did NOTHING to pacify the nation’s anger when the terrible incident first made the news in the summer.
In fact, he did the opposite he punished the nations anger by making an example of ordinary citizens and sending them to prison.

I don’t believe there is any sincerity in what he’s saying now. he’s merely trying to save face over his poor handling of the whole affair and divert attention away from that.

Nobody is fooled by this man’s bluster.

What do you suppose he could have done?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Starmer did NOTHING to pacify the nation’s anger when the terrible incident first made the news in the summer.
In fact, he did the opposite he punished the nations anger by making an example of ordinary citizens and sending them to prison.

I don’t believe there is any sincerity in what he’s saying now. he’s merely trying to save face over his poor handling of the whole affair and divert attention away from that.

Nobody is fooled by this man’s bluster.

‘The nation’s anger’ is your own interpretation FriedGreenTomatoes2, not ‘the nation’s’. ‘The nation’ was more likely horrified and upset at what had happened, which is not the same thing. Don’t speak for everybody else. The emotive language you use doesn’t convince people of your argument when you don’t have the law on your side, it makes you look uninformed.

M0nica

woodenspoon

I’m not naive far from it. The photo the police has published show the evil in this man. No excuses need to be made by apologists for evil.

I thought the photo showed not an evil man but a very seriously and dangerously mentally ill person.

Saying he is mentally ill does not excuse anything he did, or its horror. But his whole story shows someone who was mentally ill and whether he 'qualified' for Prevent or not, I cannot understand why he was not sectioned and kept under preventative rules under mental health legislation.

He would have needed to be assessed by two doctors before sectioning could happen. We don’t know enough about his mental condition to speculate on whether he might have been sectioned, but we know that some people with mental illness are good at fooling doctors. Even if he had been sectioned, nobody knows how long he would have remained so or if any effective treatment might have been, or even now might be, possible.

The nations anger as you describe it? Only in your mind, FGT, you appear to be projecting your POV into "the nation".

Only the far right approved of rioters turning up in our towns and cities? Like the one near me, terrifying local residents?

Well, the people of Southport were pretty angry after all they had suffered to have the rioters turning up on their doorsteps.

But they "turned the swords into ploughshares" the next morning and worked together to repair the damage on their streets

I think most in the nation were pretty horrified at the excuses made of those dreadful murders turned into violence and hatred on the streets and were glad they were dealt with rapidly and effectively. I certainly recall several pages of different GN's posting a "thank you" to the police for their actions.

Okay Casdon.

“Some (many?) of the nation who were angry “.

And more now I bet, since information that could have been in the public domain was not released. Tensions were high and the vacuum of information made a bad situation worse.

In my opinion.

Barleyfields

M0nica

woodenspoon

I’m not naive far from it. The photo the police has published show the evil in this man. No excuses need to be made by apologists for evil.

I thought the photo showed not an evil man but a very seriously and dangerously mentally ill person.

Saying he is mentally ill does not excuse anything he did, or its horror. But his whole story shows someone who was mentally ill and whether he 'qualified' for Prevent or not, I cannot understand why he was not sectioned and kept under preventative rules under mental health legislation.

He would have needed to be assessed by two doctors before sectioning could happen. We don’t know enough about his mental condition to speculate on whether he might have been sectioned, but we know that some people with mental illness are good at fooling doctors. Even if he had been sectioned, nobody knows how long he would have remained so or if any effective treatment might have been, or even now might be, possible.

We may get to know more but we do not know whether he was actually under the care of, or even known by, local mental health teams. That is the only way he could have been sectioned before the event.

The only other way he could have been sectioned is if he is being held by the police and mental health professionals re then called in to section, but this never happened before the event.

Wyllow3 I heard a discussion on the radio earlier where it was confirmed that when education officials visited this murderers house they had police escort due to his tendency towards violence and unpredictable behaviour.

He returned to the school he was expelled from with a hockey stick and attacked a pupil breaking their wrist.

He was definitely in the system somebody somewhere screwed up and should be held accountable.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Okay Casdon.

“Some (many?) of the nation who were angry “.

And more now I bet, since information that could have been in the public domain was not released. Tensions were high and the vacuum of information made a bad situation worse.

In my opinion.

It could not have been released at that stage FGT. It has, rightly, been released only now that there has been a conviction following a guilty plea. Suppose for a moment that he had not pleaded guilty and a trial collapsed because of the level of information the jury already had. That wouldn’t have served justice would it? What would the mob do then?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Okay Casdon.

“Some (many?) of the nation who were angry “.

And more now I bet, since information that could have been in the public domain was not released. Tensions were high and the vacuum of information made a bad situation worse.

In my opinion.

Well I'll repeat myself and say, just going by GN at the time, many, many were angry that the tragedy of the murders were used by groups to riot. How would knowing a bit more have made any difference? Stopped the riots? I dont think so.

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I heard a discussion on the radio earlier where it was confirmed that when education officials visited this murderers house they had police escort due to his tendency towards violence and unpredictable behaviour.

He returned to the school he was expelled from with a hockey stick and attacked a pupil breaking their wrist.

He was definitely in the system somebody somewhere screwed up and should be held accountable.

I very much agree this needs looking into and why it was not decided to take further GG13 - hence an inquiry.

Oh Wyllow I think you’re being disingenuous now.

Knowing ‘more’ would have helped diffuse a tinderbox reaction. Social media posts (I don’t do FB, Twitter etc) were full of agitated members of the public.

Questions were being asked, such as:
Was he Welsh??
Why not publish his name at least?
So ‘what were the police/government trying to hide’? was the narrative that WAS gaining traction.

Word got out (as it does) neighbours, friends of friends.
“Was he an asylum seeker?
Was he a newly arrived migrant on a rubber boat?

People then put two and two together and made five.

Definitely SOME of this could have been prevented.
It could have and should have been nipped in the bud to stop rampant speculation.

Wyllow3 I fear that the enquiry will go the same way as many other enquiries.

It will just kick the can further down the road

Along with the meaningless platitudes including lessons will be learnt

I hope I am wrong, but…

It could not have been released at that stage FGT. It has, rightly, been released only now that there has been a conviction following a guilty plea.

It was released in October Wyllow.
The guilty pale was yesterday.

*plea

From Yvette Cooper today
‘Cooper then turns to the issue of "contempt of court" which aims to ensure that trials are fair and justice is done.
She says social media is putting these rules "under strain" and that the Law Commission is looking into this. However, she says that politicians must stick to these rules to ensure mistrials are avoided.’

From BBC, reporting her actual words.

Copyright infringement.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Farage: ‘Cover up Keir convinces no one’
Nigel Farage labelled the Prime Minister “cover up Keir” as he responded to the premier’s Downing Street press conference.

The Reform UK leader rejected Sir Keir’s claim that he could not have said more about the Southport killer in the aftermath of the attack.

“The Prime Minister is once again hiding behind the contempt of court argument,” Mr Farage said.

“This is simply untrue, the country needed to know the truth about this murderer and that he was known to the authorities.

“Even MPs were banned from asking questions about this man’s background. Cover up Keir convinces no one.”

👏👏

Yes well, your hero, Farage could well have jeopardised the trial and been responsible for setting this monstrous man free. Although I can excuse you and others on here who may not be aware of the rules of justice in this country, Farage is, or should be aware of them, and I am afraid he is playing you and all his supporters as yet again, he makes a tragedy all about him and his dubious political ambitions.

Whatever your opinion of Starmer, and you have made your intolerance of everything he does perfectly clear, the fact is he knows far more about the justice system in this country than Farage and his GN fan club.

Even some Ex Tory MP's, such as Steve Baker are accusing Farage.

A Pensioner Bernard Fowler was murdered on a platform 4.30 am Harold Wood Station last year. Not on the National News. We are not being told half of it I believe by design

Quotes a deleted post.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Starmer did NOTHING to pacify the nation’s anger when the terrible incident first made the news in the summer.
In fact, he did the opposite he punished the nations anger by making an example of ordinary citizens and sending them to prison.

I don’t believe there is any sincerity in what he’s saying now. he’s merely trying to save face over his poor handling of the whole affair and divert attention away from that.

Nobody is fooled by this man’s bluster.

And yet you seem to revere a convicted felon of a president who has just released people from prison who were involved in an insurrection (that he was responsible for) in which people died .