Court of Appeal rules the 3 Sara Sharif judges can be identified next week.

So sorry, I have only now read of this on the BBC

We don’t know what the judge was told, was full information of the birth father

I can't understand why the judge/s didn't listen to their instincts, which should have been telling them that Sara would be much, much better off being looked after in a loving and caring foster home. With all her experience, what on earth was the judge thinking when she placed Sara in the care of a monster. So what if he was her birth Father. Being a birth parent shouldn't give you an automatic right to being a child's main carer. Especially if you have a history of violent, abusive behaviour, against women and children.

The judges are not entitled to remain anonymous Grantanow. That is the law, and rightly so in the interests of confidence in our legal system. It has nothing at all to do with family court cases being heard in private and not reported in the press.

They make careful decisions about what can be open to the public /press.and imo so they should.

Children and vulnerable mothers especially should not be at risk of their most personal lives being dragged into public scrutiny without good reason. It's a really, really difficult one I agree.

I still support anonymity in the closed cases. We could have a judge who has made consistently good and caring decisions and made one mistake being pilloried and blamed. What matters far more is the quality and depth of information they have on which to make the decisions.

It is inevitable that learned judges will sometimes err with bad consequences. That said, I think the risk of violence is real and I prefer they remain anonymous.

There was a documentary on BBC some time ago about women who had left the country and gone 'on the run' with their children because of decisions made in the Family courts.
In many cases the partner was guilty of horrendous abuse, sometimes guilty of sexual offences....the women felt that running away was the only way to protect their children.
The whole system is shocking and there should be an element of transparency and accountability. There should be more communication between the Family and Criminal courts (there isn't currently).

Family court has been allowed to have journalists present as part of a pilot scheme which I believe is being rolled out elsewhere.

I think it is not much more than a token gesture though, as the media won't pay staff to go sit in on these cases.

People attending family court are warned not to breach confidentiality so no one is allowed to discuss details with anyone.

They are very pressurised and secretive places. If people were allowed in they would be shocked.

I thought all that stuff was in the public domain. I have never heard of judges being given anonymity. Sounds very dodgy to me.

The FCS needs a complete overhaul. Having been though it I know it is not fit for purpose. There needs to be greater transparency. At the moment judges go on the recommendations of Caffcass almost without question. To be honest once the cafcass report has been written the judges have little to do but rubber stamp it. The judges may as well not be there...

Barleyfields

Really? What a coincidence.

Yes really checked out in 2 news sources including sky

Family Court judges, like all other judges, are accountable to senior judges. There are several layers of judge seniority. They are also accountable to The Judicial Conduct Investigations Office which supports the Lord Chancellor and the Lady Chief Justice.
But primarily judges are accountable through the appeal process, where judgements are looked at again, and sometimes a new judgment is made through appeal.

Really? What a coincidence.

Accountable to a system within the judiciary, the public, decisions can be appealed, and complaints can be lodged.

2 out of the 3 judges are retired now.

I don't imagine there is a single family court judge unaware of this case and its consequences.

Judges should be accountable to the public as they serve the public.

Why are the Family Courts accountable to no one?
All judgements can be appealed. Who should judges be accountable to?

Family Court receive a lot of training, both before they begin to make judgements, and then ongoing training afterwards. They receive all the information before the case comes to court so that they can read about the case, and then they hear further evidence and statements in court. They normally deliver their judgment days, or weeks after the court case.

woodenspoon

People feel that by hiding under the cloak of anonymity means a lack of accountability. That’s part of it. Also, if these judges make catastrophic errors in their judgements the fact they will be named may make some focus their minds and a different result may happen. It would be better if they were removed from their duties. I’m not sure naming them is the answer. Accountability is.

It would be better if they were removed from their duties

I'm inclined to agree.
They do need to be accountable and at the moment the Family Courts seem accountable to no-one.

I don't see any benefit in naming the judges. What I would like to know, though, is do family court judges receive any specific training about how to avoid being manipulated by abusive parents? Do they have in depth interviews with the parents? If all they do is follow advice given to them by social workers what are they there for?

Silverlining has shown to me how easy it was to reach what we now know was profoundly the wrong decision. Named or not, I see no gain in seeking to blame the judges in retrospect.

What we have, as pointed out above, is a system not able to adequately meet the needs of children at the moment, and it has been that way for some considerable time.

It will take a good deal of repairing, but I also feel that we should offer those who day after day Do get things right for children our thanks and support, for all we hear is when things go wrong.

There’s an old saying … “even a bad parent is a good parent - to a child”.
😢

The difficulty is, of course, as everyone has said, that these abusive people can be exceptionally good at manipulation.
There was a case a few years ago, of a child removed from her violent father, and non protective mother. The grandparents cared for her devotedly for quite some time.
The father kicked up a huge fuss, including appearances on television, saying how wronged he had been.
An appeal judge handed her back to her parents, with apologies for their mis- treatment at the hands of social workers and the judiciary.
The child was dead, at her father's hands, within the year.

silverlining48

Assume Sara would have had a guardian ad litem to speak in court on her behalf, whose recommendation would be taken seriously.
Sara too will also have been spoken to privately by the judge. She would have been asked where and with whom she preferred to live and her response would have been taken seriously. I assume that Sara chose her father.
There is a lot that goes on in a court case, and we outsiders can’t know every detail, so don’t have the full facts to judge.

Exactly silverlining.

Yes FGT, I think that’s exactly right. I did a quick google search which brought up the Guardian article, but my feelings are exactly the same as yours. As I said upthread, it does all depend on the evidence that is presented to the judge/judges (I’m unsure why there were three judges in this case) and judges can only make a judgment on the evidence that they hear.
There were multiple failings in this case, which eventually caused this poor little girl to lose her life in an abhorrent manner.
The main reason though is that her father is/was a vile bully.

Assume Sara would have had a guardian ad litem to speak in court on her behalf, whose recommendation would be taken seriously.
Sara too will also have been spoken to privately by the judge. She would have been asked where and with whom she preferred to live and her response would have been taken seriously. I assume that Sara chose her father.
There is a lot that goes on in a court case, and we outsiders can’t know every detail, so don’t have the full facts to judge.