Court of Appeal rules the 3 Sara Sharif judges can be identified next week.

There was a documentary on BBC some time ago about women who had left the country and gone 'on the run' with their children because of decisions made in the Family courts.
In many cases the partner was guilty of horrendous abuse, sometimes guilty of sexual offences....the women felt that running away was the only way to protect their children.
The whole system is shocking and there should be an element of transparency and accountability. There should be more communication between the Family and Criminal courts (there isn't currently).

It is inevitable that learned judges will sometimes err with bad consequences. That said, I think the risk of violence is real and I prefer they remain anonymous.

They make careful decisions about what can be open to the public /press.and imo so they should.

Children and vulnerable mothers especially should not be at risk of their most personal lives being dragged into public scrutiny without good reason. It's a really, really difficult one I agree.

I still support anonymity in the closed cases. We could have a judge who has made consistently good and caring decisions and made one mistake being pilloried and blamed. What matters far more is the quality and depth of information they have on which to make the decisions.

The judges are not entitled to remain anonymous Grantanow. That is the law, and rightly so in the interests of confidence in our legal system. It has nothing at all to do with family court cases being heard in private and not reported in the press.

I can't understand why the judge/s didn't listen to their instincts, which should have been telling them that Sara would be much, much better off being looked after in a loving and caring foster home. With all her experience, what on earth was the judge thinking when she placed Sara in the care of a monster. So what if he was her birth Father. Being a birth parent shouldn't give you an automatic right to being a child's main carer. Especially if you have a history of violent, abusive behaviour, against women and children.

We don’t know what the judge was told, was full information of the birth father

So sorry, I have only now read of this on the BBC

There’s a great deal we don’t know and will never know because no transcript of any of the hearings will ever be provided. It is however interesting that Sara apparently said, when asked, as children are, that she was happy with her father and wanted to carry on living with him. Unfortunately, irena, you are viewing this with the benefit of hindsight.

Totally pointless. They will just be targets for revenge, as will their families. They should emigrate immediately for their own safety. The judges could, of course, write a dissertation on why they arrived at their conclusion, which would go a long way to allay suspicions.

Anyway, who is actually demanding that their identities should be revealed? Is it a JSO-type protest group?

We all have 20:20 vision with hindsight. Patently the decision was wrong and had tragic consequences. But why was that decision reached? It would be more practical and informative for the general public to know that, rather than revealing the identities of the judges. Surely?

Poor Sara was such a pretty little girl.

I can’t see any benefit for the public knowing who the judge was. What are the public going to do with the information? It would be more informative to see the full judgment. Has that been published?

Family court judgements are never published in the media.

And, dalrymple, the judges are not allowed to write about case.

This reminds me of the shocking case of Ellie Butler. Lovely little girl who was living happily and flourishing with her grandparents.

Her father had actually had been accused of shaking her when she was a baby.

However, for unknown reasons she was sent back to live with her parents after 5 happy years

Just shocking. I remember her father appearing on This Morning saying how wrong it had been to accuse him.

A year after she'd been sent back to live with her parents she was dead. Killed by her vile father

At the hearing when Ellie was sent back to her parents care by Mrs Justice Hogg, her grandfather called out that she'd have blood on her hands. And she did.

I wonder how she and Judge Alison Raeside get to sleep at night

Family court judgements are never published in the media

I know this Barleyfields because I know a Family Court judge. And I know why the judge’s identities are not published either, but in this case, with all the public interest, it may have been preferable to publish the judgment rather than publish the name of the judge, which may have put her into danger.
I hope not.

I won’t name her but the judge who gave Sara Sharif back to her violent and abusive father was previously accused of serious failings in her conduct, it can now be revealed.

irena

I can't understand why the judge/s didn't listen to their instincts, which should have been telling them that Sara would be much, much better off being looked after in a loving and caring foster home. With all her experience, what on earth was the judge thinking when she placed Sara in the care of a monster. So what if he was her birth Father. Being a birth parent shouldn't give you an automatic right to being a child's main carer. Especially if you have a history of violent, abusive behaviour, against women and children.

👏👏👏

They are not published, but neither are they kept secret. Their names only escape publication because transcripts of the proceedings over which they preside are not published in the media. I say ‘in the media’ because I believe decided cases and the names of the judges are reported in the law reports available to lawyers, but with children only referred to as X or Y. Doubtless the judge you know will confirm whether that is so.

The Court of Appeal (Sir Geoffrey Vos, Master of the Rolls, Lady Justice King and Lord Justice Warby) have now said that was wrong. The judge did not have jurisdiction to make such an order, and in doing so he acted irregularly and unfairly towards the media

This anonymity given was basically against the law which is why they were able to name then.

And how terrifying is a social media pile on in comparison to suffering a violent childhood?

Answer: no contest.

Sara was placed in the care of her father despite allegations that he had abused a number of women, threatened one with a knife and regularly beat his children.

I simply cannot comprehend what she (the Judge) was thinking.

We don’t know the whole story as at the time of the court hearings FGT, and we never will. You don’t know what evidence was before the judge. You only know what has been reported in the media after the event.

We know quite a bit about the Ellie Butler case.

Mrs Justice Hogg had sided with Butler, (father), despite objections from police, social services and Ellie's maternal grandfather

I'll never forget that case.

As Barleyfields says, the judgement will have been made according to the evidence presented to the judge. I believe that the social worker recommended that Sara be put into her father’s care, and of course, if only the police had prosecuted him for his previous instances of violence towards the three previous partners that he had assaulted, or their children who he had also assaulted. I find the lack of prosecution by the police the most worrying, because since that evidence was not available to the judge, she could not possibly have known. If she had known, it may have saved Sara’s life.

This was a particularly tragic case.

Thanks to maddyone for calm input on the family courts. I’ve posted in previous discussions, that I believe the majority of us have little idea of the extent of horrors those involved in the family courts experience.
The suggestion earlier that the Judges should rely on their instincts and that this could somehow have saved Sara reflects this.
Family court proceedings should and do enable forensic examination of the individual needs of the children and the best ways these can be met. The assessments, recommendations and conclusions are based on research and best practice.
The system failed Sara and her siblings spectacularly. It’s difficult to recruit and retain sw, children’s guardians, child care lawyers and barristers, family judges, peadiatricians, health care workers, teachers, police officers and more to work with children and families. It’s getting more difficult. Mind you, who needs specialist training when relying in instincts is better

Prior to FC hearings Cafcass present what is called a Section 7 report.

In most cases, and in my experience, the judges use the report's recommendations for their judgements. Sometimes there is little point in having a hearing at all.

Maybe the cafcass officers names should be published too?

I think the judges should be named, as that is the law. However, anyone who attempts to threaten any of the judges should be dealt with very severely.

I have to admit, I felt angry and unsettled to hear details of some of the court cases that had occurred which led to the poor little girl being placed with her father and step mother. On the surface, it seemed like a really bad decision. However, on reflection, I have to acknowledge that these social work and legal interventions went on for some time and were complicated. Just hearing certain details cannot possibly give me a full picture of what decisions were arrived at and why.

People doing sensitive and difficult jobs that involve the wellbeing of others - doctors, nurses, social workers, teachers, lawyers, etc, etc, are often vilified when things go wrong.