The Guardian reports that Trump says all Palestinians should move out of Gaza

GrannyGravy13

I ignore anyone who shouts at me in real life, so why would I respond to anyone shouting on social media?

(Using capitals is recognised as shouting on social media platforms)

I never shout at people, in RL or here on GN. Capitals can also represent emphasis, as in this case.

You have not replied, and I totally understand why. Because there is NO solution.
Not a), not b) and not any.

Anniebach

I disagree, the first reaction of ‘Never Again’ was in the 40’s when the horror of the fate of six million Jews were recorded

It was the first time that the horrors of genocide had been shown to the people who were not personally involved in either committing it, suffering it, or involved in "clearing up the evidence" of it. Photography and the cinema brought it to the close attention of people who might otherwise only have heard stories from those traumatised by it one way or another. At first they may have thought that Nazi Germany was the exception to the "normal" killing pattern of a war. but very very soon it was realised that ANY country can be tempted to carry a war past that and into genocide. My own parentswould not have restricted the "never again" to any one nationality, creed or colour. I think they were representative of most people then and now.

West Bank

Meanwhile the illegal Israeli settlers have successfully rid through violence, burnings and with the implicit support of police, many areas of the West Bank where the Bedouin shepherds - who have been there for millennia - have traditionally farmed with their own unique culture.

This is all being lost.

Quickly followed by the determination to never allow ANY nation to commit such a crime against any other section of humanity again.

You cannot exempt only one group of people from genocide. It is a war crime on any group.

I disagree, the first reaction of ‘Never Again’ was in the 40’s when the horror of the fate of six million Jews were recorded

Anniebach

But it wax said after the Holocaust and did refer to the Holocaust , it is now argued that it was referring to all deaths,
this is known as denial

No. The rest of the world could see that it could not only apply to the Jews, it applied to ALL people. Genocide is a war crime, even if is being perpetrated by a people who in a previous event were the victims of it themselves., and even if it being committed against a people of whom SOME had declared they wanted it against the perpetrators. Find, indict and convict those who commit a crime, do not slaughter the whole population

Vengeance is mine, said God. In other words - it is not for you to do, leave it to me.

Between 1941 and 1945, Nazi Germany and its allies murdered about six million Jews in a genocide which has become known as the Holocaust.[6] The Nazi attempt to implement their final solution to the Jewish question took place during World War II in Europe. The first use of the phrase "never again" in the context of the Holocaust was in April 1945 when newly liberated survivors at Buchenwald concentration camp displayed it in various languages on handmade signs.[7][8]

Eloethan

Anniebach As I have said before, the hatred that was aimed at Jewish people - as you rightly say, for centuries - did not come from the Palestinians.

And certainly during WWII the Palestinians were not involved in the persecution of Jewish people and other minorities. It was Europe which was at war - it was Hitler (and his many followers - some overt and some keeping their opinions closer to their chest) who were responsible for the Holocaust. Many Europeans and Americans showed extreme prejudice against Jewish people, though it was more overt in America, where being of Jewish descent meant exclusion from clubs and societies. The British were aware of what was happening in Germany but chose to turn a blind eye, until it became apparent that Hitler was a threat not just to Jewish and other minorities but to the whole of Europe. Anti- semitism was pervasive throughout Britain - with all levels of society involved - eg aristocrats and working class people - as Mosley and the blackshirts demonstrate.

So after the war, this anti-semitism posed a bit of a problem, and that problem was sorted out by forming a Jewish homeland, with no thought given to the people who already lived there and who had built homes and farmed the land. They were merely seen as an inconvenience, but a minor one since they were a relatively small group that had no strategic, political or economic power in the world.

Of course, there is hatred now between Israeli people and Palestinian people - although neither were the architects of this mess. The hatred is equally felt on both sides, and it continues to be reinforced from generation to generation by evil people on both sides. I don't know how it can be stopped. But I do know it can never be stopped by bombing, massacring and starving people. There are Jewish and Muslim people who know this too, but sadly their voices are drowned out.

The "never again" was obviously meant for human beings in general because it wasn't just Jewish people who were murdered and experimented on - it was a whole range of people, including Roma, homosexual and disabled people.

Agree totally.
Without the history of a conflict we are simply stumbling around in the dark.

The faith of Palestinians is Muslim, the faith of the countries re
War of Independence 1948

So we are speaking of Jews and Muslims

Eloethan - thank you - reflects my POV. there have been threads on Palestine and Israel for a long time now and earlier threads had quite a lot of long term historical background discussion.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Anniebach As I have said before, the hatred that was aimed at Jewish people - as you rightly say, for centuries - did not come from the Palestinians.

And certainly during WWII the Palestinians were not involved in the persecution of Jewish people and other minorities. It was Europe which was at war - it was Hitler (and his many followers - some overt and some keeping their opinions closer to their chest) who were responsible for the Holocaust. Many Europeans and Americans showed extreme prejudice against Jewish people, though it was more overt in America, where being of Jewish descent meant exclusion from clubs and societies. The British were aware of what was happening in Germany but chose to turn a blind eye, until it became apparent that Hitler was a threat not just to Jewish and other minorities but to the whole of Europe. Anti- semitism was pervasive throughout Britain - with all levels of society involved - eg aristocrats and working class people - as Mosley and the blackshirts demonstrate.

So after the war, this anti-semitism posed a bit of a problem, and that problem was sorted out by forming a Jewish homeland, with no thought given to the people who already lived there and who had built homes and farmed the land. They were merely seen as an inconvenience, but a minor one since they were a relatively small group that had no strategic, political or economic power in the world.

Of course, there is hatred now between Israeli people and Palestinian people - although neither were the architects of this mess. The hatred is equally felt on both sides, and it continues to be reinforced from generation to generation by evil people on both sides. I don't know how it can be stopped. But I do know it can never be stopped by bombing, massacring and starving people. There are Jewish and Muslim people who know this too, but sadly their voices are drowned out.

The "never again" was obviously meant for human beings in general because it wasn't just Jewish people who were murdered and experimented on - it was a whole range of people, including Roma, homosexual and disabled people.

Palestinian Hamas doesn’t agree with ‘never again’ that would include Jews

ABout the holocaus, that it should never be repeated. The future, for all- Never again- for anyone.

Look at her eyes

www.facebook.com/reel/638051615466803

have you heard of 'hasbara'?

But it wax said after the Holocaust and did refer to the Holocaust , it is now argued that it was referring to all deaths,
this is known as denial

the whole world said

never again

for anyone

And eighty years ago the Jewish people said

never again

Eighty years ago, Claremont? You'd hope we'd moved on since them.

Eighty years ago Auschwitz was liberated.
Eighty years ago people were hiding in air raid shelters and tunnels from Nazi bombs.
Eighty years ago delegates from 50 nations gathered in San Francisco. They represented over 80% of the world’s population. These delegates were determined to set up an organisation that would preserve peace and help build a better world.

Many things which were acceptable years ago are no longer acceptable today.

Smoking in hospitals, children sent up chimneys, drinking and driving, corporal punishment in schools…

Full article here

www.972mag.com/when-jewish-militants-dug-underground-tunnels/

80 years ago, actually

Eighty years ago it was the Zionist militias who dug underground tunnels and hid weapon caches among the civilian population. So why is it so difficult for Israelis to understand when Hamas does the same today?

The idea of Tunnels to hide troops, etc, were given by Netanyahu under Jerusalem btw, a long time ago.

Rula

Would you have been on the side of the Jews post WWII?

When they were forced to leave their homes in the middle east and Africa?

I'm sure you would have been

Of course, absolutely and totally.

I was too young, born in 1950. But we all read Ann Frank's Diary, and other books, which made us feel even stronger that Jews had every right to a safe place of their own.

None of us realised that Zionists would immediately start to illegally take and settle more and more land, in violent, military ways. That was bound to lead to even more resentment from Palestinians- that was always clear. I have spent quite a bit of time recently looking at what has happened since 1948 (and before with Netanyahu's Zionists father and grand-father) - and the political history of Netanyahu, and his settler's strong and determined aims. The video of him clearly saying, in 2001, that he would attack Gaza so hard and so repeatedly, that they would have lo leave. The murders of his predecessors and Arafat to ensure a Two State solution would not happen, and so much more.

However, I do realise now, as many others- that giving Jews who had suffered so much during the Holocaust, a large and disproportiate part of someone else's land- in the middle of the Middle East, was bound to cause severe and long term friction. And that has been made so so much worse by constant illegal settlements, and constant humiliation and violence against Palestinians. We can all hate Hamas, and which they had not come to power. But it was bound to happen, in the circumstances. Those who tried to establish a Two State solution were murdered by the far right who never wanted it. Rabin and Arafat, and others.

As said above- if there is no a) and there is no b)

what happens next. Silence is not surprising- because it has to be one or the other. And it won't end well for neither side, and for no-one!

Trump and Netanyahu are in cohoots- and have been for a very long time. Both criminals for fraud, etc- trying to save their own head.

I ignore anyone who shouts at me in real life, so why would I respond to anyone shouting on social media?

(Using capitals is recognised as shouting on social media platforms)

Agreed, but people can't say that a Two State solution is not possible, and that Trump should clear Gaza of Palestinians with no right to return.

Because it makes NO sense whatsoever.