The Guardian reports that Trump says all Palestinians should move out of Gaza

maddyone

Anniebach

Palestinian Hamas does not have to think International Law

No they don’t Annie.
It’s strange how terrorists don’t have to consider international law isn’t it?
Everything they did on 7th October broke international laws and rules, the Geneva Convention and so on. But we were repeatedly told here on Gransnet that these laws did not apply to Hamas because they were not a country and hadn’t signed up to any of these conventions/laws.

So there we have it. Israel is accused of war crimes, but Hamas?

Hamas leaders have been indicted by the ICC specifically for 7th October just as some Israel leaders have.

maddyone

Anniebach

Palestinian Hamas does not have to think International Law

No they don’t Annie.
It’s strange how terrorists don’t have to consider international law isn’t it?
Everything they did on 7th October broke international laws and rules, the Geneva Convention and so on. But we were repeatedly told here on Gransnet that these laws did not apply to Hamas because they were not a country and hadn’t signed up to any of these conventions/laws.

So there we have it. Israel is accused of war crimes, but Hamas?

Why does saying that Trump shouldn’t break international law equate to me saying that it’s ok for Hamas to do the same? It isn’t right for anyone to do so.

maddyone

Anniebach

Palestinian Hamas does not have to think International Law

No they don’t Annie.
It’s strange how terrorists don’t have to consider international law isn’t it?
Everything they did on 7th October broke international laws and rules, the Geneva Convention and so on. But we were repeatedly told here on Gransnet that these laws did not apply to Hamas because they were not a country and hadn’t signed up to any of these conventions/laws.

So there we have it. Israel is accused of war crimes, but Hamas?

The ICC has had Hamas down as war criminals for years.

Sometimes bias blinds you to facts.

But Trump frequently says things just to sabre rattle and stir things up in the hope that it will scare people in this case to leave Gaza. But most don't want to go.

He has also produced no realistic plans about where people can go, has produced no costings, has not said whether US military will be involved. Has not considered (I dont think he has the ability tbh) consequences generally for the Middle East of ethnic cleansing.

Empty and dangerous rhetoric, not supported by any single other country in the world.

Anniebach

Palestinian Hamas does not have to think International Law

No they don’t Annie.
It’s strange how terrorists don’t have to consider international law isn’t it?
Everything they did on 7th October broke international laws and rules, the Geneva Convention and so on. But we were repeatedly told here on Gransnet that these laws did not apply to Hamas because they were not a country and hadn’t signed up to any of these conventions/laws.

So there we have it. Israel is accused of war crimes, but Hamas?

I don’t believe Trump will do as he suggests. It’s against international law, and he’s full of hot air.

Palestinian Hamas does not have to think International Law

Thinking outside the box by breaking international law?

Fanciful, yes Allira. And yet - nothing else has worked. Keep doing the same thing over and over, getting the same results, comes to mind. Time to think outside the box and shake things up? Maybe.

Allira

^What on earth are you talking about Anniebach?^

Anniebach is talking about a time which will come in the future when no survivors of the Holocaust are left, it will be a footnote in history and those who deny it will have the say.

How much do today's students know about pogroms?

History is subjective and that is in evidence on social media.

Already teachers in various European countries say that small numbers of students say they don’t think the holocaust was real.

Whatever he may think he cannot just go and buy other countries however desirable the waterfront location.
He'll be targeting Scotland next for one huge golf course.

You think that's fanciful?
His mind doesn't work like other people's.

Am surprised that a bookstore in Jerusalem allows Palestinian books promoting anything like Statehood or by or about any hamas leaders to stay open quite frankly after what hamas did in Israel.Israel is at war with hamas.
And no it is nothing like 1930’s Germany as one or two on this forum keep trying to promote.The Jews in Germany had done nothing wrong but had their businesses closed or raided.There was no war or conflict raging or action by a huge group of murderous Jews, so stop your nonsense.

The Israel-Hamas ceasefire is holding for now. On Sunday, IDF soldiers withdrew from the Netzarim corridor, a 4-mile military artery/zone of control that the IDF has been using to supply and hold its occupation of Gaza. Palestinians have been allowed to return to their homes north of the corridor in exchange for Israeli hostages being released, but it’s not clear if the two sides will move to the second phase of the ceasefire, as Israel has only sent low-level diplomats to the latest round of peace talks.

Trump, for his part, seems dead-set on torpedoing any chance at peace. “I’m committed to buying and owning Gaza. As far as us rebuilding it, we may give it to other states in the Middle East to build sections of it. Other people may do it through our auspices. But we’re committed to owning it, taking it, and making sure that Hamas doesn’t move back. There’s nothing to move back into. The place is a demolition site. The remainder will be demolished,” he told the press on Sunday en route to the Super Bowl. According to the U.N.’s top investigator on human rights in Palestine, that plan “amounts to ethnic cleansing.”

What on earth are you talking about Anniebach?

Anniebach is talking about a time which will come in the future when no survivors of the Holocaust are left, it will be a footnote in history and those who deny it will have the say.

How much do today's students know about pogroms?

History is subjective and that is in evidence on social media.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202502/medium-407894-img-1696.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202502/medium-561490-img-1697.jpeg

GrannyGravy13

In principle I am against censorship of books, literature, the arts etc.

If literature of any genre, both physical or online is promoting hatred and violence against others, should it be allowed?

A moral dilemma of the 21st century, a fine line between freedom and censorship.

Israel apparently does not share your view.

There is footage of a bookshop in the West Bank that was ransacked and all literature alluding to Palestine was taken.

“Israeli police raided two Educational Bookshops on Sunday in occupied East Jerusalem, confiscating books & arrested the owner. They rampaged through the store using Google Translate, and whatever they didn’t like they confiscated. Books with Palestinian flag on it, they took it”

Will come not has come, spot the difference?

That is in response to Anniebach's "fear that there will come a time when the Holocaust did not take place" - i.e, it hasn't received sufficient coverage.

What on earth are you talking about Anniebach?

"The BBC is set to mark Holocaust Memorial Day on 27 January 2025 and the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau with a wide range of programming across TV, Radio and Online, as well as full coverage of the Auschwitz Ceremony from Poland and commemorative events across the UK.

"There will be coverage across BBC News and the BBC News channel throughout the day – following the main events and providing insight, context and sharing human stories.

"Fiona Bruce will be live from Auschwitz for a special programme on BBC One from 2.30pm, covering the commemoration ceremony at the camp........

"In the evening on BBC One and iPlayer from 7pm, survivors and VIPs will attend a unique commemoration to mark Holocaust Memorial Day, hosted by Reeta Chakrabartiere ........

"In What Happened at Auschwitz on BBC One and iPlayer (20 January at 8.30pm), BBC journalist and award winning presenter Jordan Dunbar ..............discovers that this shocking moment in history .......

"On BBC Two and iPlayer, an extraordinary new feature documentary, The Last Musician of Auschwitz (27 January at 9pm), tells the story of Anita Lasker-Wallfisch who, at 99, is the only surviving member of the Women’s Orchestra at Auschwitz......................

"In an additional commission to be broadcast later in the year, renowned historian Sir Simon Schama confronts the history of the Holocaust....... This includes a special Radio 3 In Concert by the BBC Symphony Orchestra.

"On BBC Radio 4, Katya Adler will co-present the Today programme live from Auschwitz on Monday 27 January.....

"Elsewhere on Radio 4, Crossing Continents uncovers the horrible truth behind the death marches ............

"For BBC News, Fiona Bruce will be co-presenting the News at Six and Ten on location. Jon Kay will be co-presenting from Auschwitz for BBC Breakfast and the News at One.

"Lucy Hockings will also be on location for the BBC News Channel to follow events throughout the day, as well as those in the UK and around the world.

"The BBC News Channel will also simulcast the BBC One coverage of the Auschwitz ceremony from 2.30pm.

"Newsround will be broadcasting a special bulletin, where viewers can follow Emma-Louise Amanshia as she travels to Auschwitz ....

" BBC Teach will make available Holocaust Memorial Day assembly packs and the website will also host a short film ......

"In the lead up to Holocaust Memorial Day, BBC Four will be showing The U.S and the Holocaust, Shoah, and The Windermere Children to mark this very special anniversary.

I had a friend who had an English father and a German mother. They had met when her father, who had served in the British Army in WWII, was deployed to Germany in a programme to help Germany get back on its feet - restoring housing, infrastructure and industry. Her parents later married and lived in Germany, only returning briefly to the UK several years later.

It is ironic that the nation which had waged war against the rest of Europe and which had systematically murdered millions of Jewish and Roma people, Communists, disabled people, etc, etc., were then helped to restore their country to some sort of normality. While the Palestinians, who had no involvement whatsoever in the war or the Holocaust, were deemed expendable and, without any consultation or compensation whatsoever, lost their land and their homes -and subsequently lost many of their basic human rights too.

And I am asking, quite fairly, so where do we go from here?

Well, we go into our kitchens, make a nice hot cup of coffee, settle back down, log on to GN and chunter away on social media.

^We^ is not the appropriate pronoun to use here as we have no say in any of this.

Claremont whatever you, I or others on GN or any other forums think will have no influence on the situation in the Middle East.

Hamas has vowed to continue in whatever way they can to wipe every Jew off of the planet.

Israel is intent on eliminating Hamas, in order to protect Jews.

There is no apparent solution at this time.

Neither party trusts the other, negotiations are ongoing…

In principle I am against censorship of books, literature, the arts etc.

If literature of any genre, both physical or online is promoting hatred and violence against others, should it be allowed?

A moral dilemma of the 21st century, a fine line between freedom and censorship.

Sorry, but I do believe I read correctly GG13.

On the one hand, you say Palestinians should not be drive off their own land.

On the other, that a Two State solution is not possible.

And I am asking, quite fairly, so where do we go from here? How can the two statements above work in reality?

Unverifiable? Well, I am so grateful Willow found one article confirming the report from my Israeli friend. But some here will say anything published by Haaretz is from 'the wrong side' and therefore can't be true.

And again, Netanyahu has forbidden any reporting from inside Gaza. And for many here and out, anything posted about what is going on inside Gaza, is unverifiable, lies and Hamas propaganda.

Yes, just like Germany at the time.

Unverifiable? Well, I am not going to give you the name and addresses of the Israeli Jews who now live in the EU as they could see the writing on the wall, and knew of Netanyahu's plans for a very long time (did you watch the video of him saying he planned massive and repeated attacks on Gaza, so massive they would never recover- in 2001 way, way before Hamas gave him the excuse he was waiting for, and chose not to stop when he had all the intelligence and the means to do.).

Nor the name and addresse of their family and friends still in Israel, who fear for their lives. Because of Netanyahu and his actions, more than from Hamas.

Someone said this before, when the IRA bombed Birmingham, or Brighton- did the UK choose to obliterate Ireland, blow it up to smithereens then tell all inhabitants they had to leave Ireland and go find homes elsewhere. No- and for very good reasons. The rest of the world would NOT have stood by in silence and there would have been massive repercussions.

So, yes, I will ask again. If no exclusion of Palestinians from their destroyed land, and no Two-State solution - what happens next. It is a fair question, surely.

The Jerusalem Post reports that those titles were in another shop altogether closed last week, not the one Claremont alludes to.

Claremont

Wyllow3

This reference in the Jerusalem Post verifies the raiding of bookshops as Claremont describes.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/police-said-to-raid-leading-bookstore-in-east-jerusalem-arrest-owner-seize-books/

Right back to 1930s Germany.

So do you think that selling books (allegedly) inciting terror, including books by terrorists Yahya Sinwar, Abdullah Barghouti, and Islamic State should be allowed, then?

I'm not so sure.

Anniebach

We are to forget the persecution of Jews, I fear the time will come when the Holocaust didn’t take place

No, humanity should never forget, but how does clearing Palestinians out of their own lands help?

It wasn't Palestinians who persecuted and murdered Jews in their millions. Maybe we should go back through history and identify those who did persecute them. It would probably include most European states, so maybe they should be paying a price. Israel is now an established state, so how about European states take in the people who are being displaced in the West Bank and (if Trump gets his way) Gaza?