The Guardian reports that Trump says all Palestinians should move out of Gaza

Claremont

So glad you have watched those accounts from IDF soldiers then. Thank you.

GrannyGravy, I am NOT attacking Israel. I am attacking Netanyahu and those who support him in this genocide. Very different. Just as different as the Palestinian people and Hamas.

Simple question do you thinks Hamas should have protected their civilians (they are after all the elected leaders) as opposed to protecting themselves

Hamas have been firing rockets into Israel for years, Israel assembled the Iron Dome and advised its citizens to have safe rooms.

Hamas knew that the atrocities of 7/10/23 would lead to Israel bombing Gaza, but they chose to provide no protection for the civilian population.

So glad you have watched those accounts from IDF soldiers then. Thank you.

GrannyGravy, I am NOT attacking Israel. I am attacking Netanyahu and those who support him in this genocide. Very different. Just as different as the Palestinian people and Hamas.

Claremont

GrannyGravy13

Claremont the Hamas propaganda machine is extremely effective, but it is best to remember that they are first and foremost terrorists.

I will wait until independent journalists and observers are allowed into Gaza before making up my mind, thank you.

You de realise tham makes no sense at all- you do understand WHY independent journalists are NOT allowed there.

And sorry, but the behaviour of Netanyahu's Israel is 100% akin to terrorism of the first order- genocide on a massive scale.

Mandela and the ANC were also called terrorists. This is what happens when a people is left with no other choice.

They did have a choice, govern in Gaza effectively and make things as good as they could be there or indulge in murderous sprees in Israel killing over a thousand innocent people and taking 200 or so hostages and thereby bringing all hell down on the heads of the Gazan population.
Hamas don’t need people on forums in the UK acting as their PR machine but bet they would be chuffed to know ( and they probably do know ) as they have phones and tech just as many Gazans still seem to as they were waving their phones around taking pics of the newly released hostages.

Yes you are mistaken, I want to know facts

Well Annie- if they want the plain unequivocal truth- they should allow independent journalits in Gaza, shouldn't they? On the one hand, they don't want any witness to their actions- and when people do give witness from within, just say they may be lying. How does that work.

This is a much more recent ex IDF witness. Thank goodness those ex soldiers are prepared to talk. I do wonder, did you read all the reports in the link I gave above. I imagine you didn't, because you don't want to know. I hope I am mistaken here, sincerely. Yes, ex serving IDF, with names. Will you trust what they say- if you don't trust anyone from Palestine?

www.cbsnews.com/video/former-idf-soldier-criticizes-israels-actions-gaza/

Claremont I am realising that all your posts are attacking Israel and its defence of its people.

What are your opinions of the Hamas terrorists hiding in schools and hospitals and amongst the innocent civilian population of Gaza?

They (Hamas) could have chosen to build protection for the civilians of Gaza, but instead chose to construct tunnels to protect themselves, their weaponry, their vehicles and supplies for their terrorists comrades.

Hamas could have written that and the words of an alleged
Israeli woman

Other similar reports, most with names

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/israel-soldiers-speak-out-brutality-palestine-occupation

2014

Lots of IDF soldiers have come forwards to denounce what has been going on, the sheer provocation and cruelty. This is one from

2014 - way before October 7th. Yes, it has been going on for a VERY long time! This is not new.

Here is just one- So courageous that they came forwards with their name- knowing they would be punished, called traitors, probably lose their jobs and their families disgraced. This one is anomymous, for those reasons, others are not. Will link to the full article below.

SERGEANT, ANONYMOUS
Nablus Regional Brigade, Nablus, 2014
"Provocation and reaction" is the act of entering a village, making a lot of noise, waiting for the stones to be thrown at you and then you arrest them, saying: "There, they're throwing stones."

Lots of vehicles move inside the whole village, barriers. A barrier seems to be the army's legitimate means to stop terrorists. We're talking about Area B [under civilian Palestinian control and Israeli security control], but the army goes in there every day, practically, provoking stone throwings. Just as any Palestinian is suspect, this is the same idea. It could be a kid's first time ever throwing a stone, but as far as the army is concerned, we've caught the stone thrower.' They could then be imprisoned, just like that.

Claremont

GrannyGravy13

Claremont the Hamas propaganda machine is extremely effective, but it is best to remember that they are first and foremost terrorists.

I will wait until independent journalists and observers are allowed into Gaza before making up my mind, thank you.

You de realise tham makes no sense at all- you do understand WHY independent journalists are NOT allowed there.

And sorry, but the behaviour of Netanyahu's Israel is 100% akin to terrorism of the first order- genocide on a massive scale.

Mandela and the ANC were also called terrorists. This is what happens when a people is left with no other choice.

when a people is left with no choice

Your post reads as if you are justifying the actions of Hamas and other terrorists?

Quote Claremont Sun 09-Feb-25 17:07:30
Anniebach
If no journalists are allowed how can anyone comment . All videos since the massacre 2023, have been from Hamas, I do
not believe Hamas
NO they have not been from Hamas- they have been from Palestinians and others on the ground.

How do you with such certainty? And what others in Gaza ?

Anniebach

If no journalists are allowed how can anyone comment . All videos since the massacre 2023, have been from Hamas, I do
not believe Hamas

NO they have not been from Hamas- they have been from Palestinians and others on the ground.

GrannyGravy13

Claremont the Hamas propaganda machine is extremely effective, but it is best to remember that they are first and foremost terrorists.

I will wait until independent journalists and observers are allowed into Gaza before making up my mind, thank you.

You de realise tham makes no sense at all- you do understand WHY independent journalists are NOT allowed there.

And sorry, but the behaviour of Netanyahu's Israel is 100% akin to terrorism of the first order- genocide on a massive scale.

Mandela and the ANC were also called terrorists. This is what happens when a people is left with no other choice.

Whitewavemark2

Wyllow3

Babs03

I think that we can condemn Hamas unequivocally as well as the far right Israeli government, it doesn’t have to be ‘either/or’.
Is hardly ever that simple.

That was my thought too babs.

Exactly so and both sides are not without the capability of horror.

I post this photo not to say that Israel is worse, but to show that it is so shortsighted to take sides in this.

Those pictures shows a difference in that poor man because he was dying of cancer when the second photograph was taken.
He was in captivity for four months but released early because he was found to be ill.

Sadly, he died soon afterwards.

GrannyGravy13

Claremont the Hamas propaganda machine is extremely effective, but it is best to remember that they are first and foremost terrorists.

I will wait until independent journalists and observers are allowed into Gaza before making up my mind, thank you.

Hear, hear

Claremont the Hamas propaganda machine is extremely effective, but it is best to remember that they are first and foremost terrorists.

I will wait until independent journalists and observers are allowed into Gaza before making up my mind, thank you.

If no journalists are allowed how can anyone comment . All videos since the massacre 2023, have been from Hamas, I do
not believe Hamas

Thing is Eloethan- they do not see the videos, images, articles, witnesses - of the atrocities of the other side. The Israelis will not show them or allow them anywhere to be seen. The West is generally turning a blind eye. And when we share articles or other material from AlJeezera, etc- they just say 'ah, it's from their side, so can't be trusted!'.

Never again, is for everyone not just one side. Not for Jewish children nor for Palestinian ones.

Does it matter that she is crude? Does it take away from what she, and many other Jewish people, feel about the situation?

The Palestinians have been denied food and water and there have been some reports of infants dying of malnutrition and hyperthermia/ You cannot refute this because we have seen the photos of children desperate for food, obviously under-nourished, grabbing almost anything they can to eat and very distressed.

I have sympathy for the Jewish people who have been held hostage and who have suffered fear, torment and probably awful conditions. But I guess their suffering is no more than that of the women and children who have been bombed out of their homes, forced to move from one area to another and, even then, being deliberately targeted. At least the released hostages are still alive and, it appears, physically uninjured.

Not satisfied with having Palestinians removed from their land, and grabbing their homes, Israel has been seizing more and more land by force to build housing settlements. How is that justifiable and would you find it acceptable if it had happened to you?

Yes Oreo she is so crude, and definitely seeks to be noticed

maddyone

I wonder if Miriam Margoyles is ashamed of what has happened to the Israeli hostages who were released today, looking as if they have been released from Belson. The before and after photographs show men who have clearly been half starved and goodness knows what other privations they have suffered.
If she’s not ashamed, she jolly well should be.
Those men ate in a disgraceful condition but she’s ashamed of being Jewish!
She should be ashamed of having no sympathy!

Miriam Margoyles is one of the strangest and crude women I have ever come across and I discount anything she comes out with in her effort to be noticed.

Hmm. If we're looking at the Old Testament as the source of " biblical rights" we must bear in mind that it can be a slightly unreliable source, written, as it is, by people with a clear message to promote.
Readers of these books will notice, however, that there is plenty of references to the chosen people fighting with the locals over land for many many years.

Yes GrannyGravy so true

Claremont Hamas has waged war on Israel.

Israel chose to protect its citizens, Hamas chose to hide behind and/or amongst theirs.