The Guardian reports that Trump says all Palestinians should move out of Gaza

I ignore Musk, majority of threads here are Israel at fault Palestine victim . What Germans in the countries which declared war on Israel in 2948 ?

Anniebach

Not so, we have posts comparing Hamas with the IRA I can
accept IRA as freedom fighters, not Hamas and which freedom
fighters broke into an Olympic village , murdered an Israeli
Olympic Team ? Black September, another Palestinian Terrorist group. I do believe these horrors are born from religion, why all those Islamic countries declaring war on Israel
1948, were Jews invading Palestine in 1948 ?

The person who did the Jewish people the most harm was not a Muslim. Was he?
He was a white supremacist in Germany.
And now we have a white supremacist in the White House with members of his administration who have made grossly anti semitic remarks in the past because they are alt right. Musk’s parents were Nazi sympathisers and he is actively supporting a far right group in Germany.
If you are looking for a bogey man I assure you you are looking in the wring direction.

Not so, we have posts comparing Hamas with the IRA I can
accept IRA as freedom fighters, not Hamas and which freedom
fighters broke into an Olympic village , murdered an Israeli
Olympic Team ? Black September, another Palestinian Terrorist group. I do believe these horrors are born from religion, why all those Islamic countries declaring war on Israel
1948, were Jews invading Palestine in 1948 ?

Oreo

David49

Palestinian land rights should be respected and I hope in future the are, but that’s a side issue and clouds the need to stop the Gaza fighting and restore permanent peace and security. Stop the fighting, there will be an election in Israel and a moderate government will change the land rights policy.

I don’t care how that is done, lives come above land rights, if the only way to remove Hamas is to depopulate Gaza that’s the way it will be.

I believe you’re right on this.

Depopulating the existing population from a land where they are not wanted may be wonderful for the physical land and for those who want rid of them but it is disastrous for those who are removed from their surroundings and dumped - -where exactly and for how long?

Unless a solution is fair to both sides it doesn't solve the problem - it only postpones resolving it for a while, not even the attempt at the notorious "final solution".

Quite right Babs03. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Annie nobody is doubting Hamas are capable of terrible violence and coercion.
But here’s a thought if any people had had their land and rights taken off them for decades without anything being done to stop it, would they behave differently?
If those people were Americans, British, French, would they have done little to claim back their land and their rights or gone all out to fight for it?
And would that fight have been called terrorism if they committed atrocities, and let’s be honest here we already know that western armed forces are capable of committing atrocities in the ME.
Nobody is different Annie.

There was thread here on BBC documentary of children in
Gaza, just reading the news

Gaza: How to Survive a Warzone was broadcast on Monday evening, depicting a "vivid and unflinching view of life" in Gaza, according to documentary makers.
The raw and often graphic documentary featured multiple accounts of the conflict, with the hour-long film showing the devastation of Gaza through the eyes of three young Palestinian children in the region.
Now, Independent investigative journalist David Collier has claimed that one of the child narrators featured in the documentary, 14-year-old Abdullah, is in fact the son of a Hamas government minister and grandson of one of Hamas' founders.
The BBC has since defended the film, admitting the organisation had "full editorial control" despite stating it had no journalistic input given the ban on international reporters in the war zone.
It added the two documentary makers behind the film were both based in London.

Agree, I read denial in the posts

There will be many if not more Jewish academics who have different views.
And none of the above justifies your horrible conspiracy theory detailed in your post written before the latest one.

The total denial here, that so many Jews, both in Israel and all over the world, are not totally against this genocidal war against Palestine. There are thousands of examples that could be quoted. I'll just pick onw for now.

We the undersigned are scholars of the Holocaust and antisemitism from different institutions. We write to express our dismay and disappointment at political leaders and notable public figures invoking Holocaust memory to explain the current crisis in Gaza and Israel.

Particular examples have ranged from Israeli Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan donning a yellow star featuring the words “Never Again” while addressing the UN General Assembly, to US President Joe Biden saying that Hamas had “engaged in barbarism that is as consequential as the Holocaust,” while Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told German Chancellor Olaf Scholz that “Hamas are the new Nazis.” US Representative Brian Mast, a Republican from Florida, speaking on the House floor, questioned the idea that there are “innocent Palestinian civilians,” claiming, “I don’t think we would so lightly throw around the term ‘innocent Nazi civilians’ during World War II.”

Antisemitism often increases at times of heightened crisis in Israel-Palestine, as do Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism. The unconscionable violence of the October 7 attacks and the ongoing aerial bombardment and invasion of Gaza are devastating, and are generating pain and fear among Jewish and Palestinian communities around the world. We reiterate that everyone has the right to feel safe wherever they live, and that addressing racism, antisemitism, and Islamophobia must be a priority.

It is understandable why many in the Jewish community recall the Holocaust and earlier pogroms when trying to comprehend what happened on October 7—the massacres, and the images that came out in the aftermath, have tapped into deep-seated collective memory of genocidal antisemitism, driven by all-too-recent Jewish history.

However, appealing to the memory of the Holocaust obscures our understanding of the antisemitism Jews face today, and dangerously misrepresents the causes of violence in Israel-Palestine. The Nazi genocide involved a state—and its willing civil society—attacking a tiny minority, which then escalated to a continent-wide genocide. Indeed, comparisons of the crisis unfolding in Israel-Palestine to Nazism and the Holocaust—above all when they come from political leaders and others who can sway public opinion—are intellectual and moral failings. At a moment when emotions are running high, political leaders have a responsibility to act calmly and avoid stoking the flames of distress and division. And, as academics, we have a duty to uphold the intellectual integrity of our profession and support others around the world in making sense of this moment.

Israeli leaders and others are using the Holocaust framing to portray Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza as a battle for civilization in the face of barbarism, thereby promoting racist narratives about Palestinians. This rhetoric encourages us to separate this current crisis from the context out of which it has arisen. Seventy-five years of displacement, fifty-six years of occupation, and sixteen years of the Gaza blockade have generated an ever-deteriorating spiral of violence that can only be arrested by a political solution. There is no military solution in Israel-Palestine, and deploying a Holocaust narrative in which an “evil” must be vanquished by force will only perpetuate an oppressive state of affairs that has already lasted far too long.

Insisting that “Hamas are the new Nazis”—while holding Palestinians collectively responsible for Hamas’s actions—attributes hardened, antisemitic motivations to those who defend Palestinian rights. It also positions the protection of Jewish people against the upholding of international human rights and laws, implying that the current assault on Gaza is a necessity. And invoking the Holocaust to dismiss demonstrators calling for a “free Palestine” fuels the repression of Palestinian human rights advocacy and the conflation of antisemitism with criticism of Israel.

In this climate of growing insecurity, we need clarity about antisemitism so that we can properly identify and combat it. We also need clear thinking as we grapple with and respond to what is unfolding in Gaza and the West Bank. And we need to be forthright in dealing with these simultaneous realities—of resurgent antisemitism and widespread killing in Gaza, as well as escalating expulsions in the West Bank—as we engage with the public discourse.

We encourage those who have so readily invoked comparisons to Nazi Germany to listen to the rhetoric coming from Israel’s political leadership. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the Israeli parliament that “this is a struggle between the children of light and the children of darkness” (a tweet from his office with the same phrase was later deleted). Defense Minister Yoav Gallant proclaimed, “We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly.” Such comments, along with a widespread and frequently cited argument that there are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza, do indeed bring to mind echoes of historical mass violence. But those resonances should serve as an injunction against wide-scale killing, not as a call to extend it.

As academics we have a responsibility to use our words, and our expertise, with judgment and sensitivity—to try and dial down inciteful language that is liable to provoke further discord, and instead to prioritize speech and action aimed at preventing further loss of life. This is why when invoking the past, we must do so in ways that illuminate the present and do not distort it. This is the necessary basis for establishing peace and justice in Palestine and Israel. This is why we urge public figures, including the media, to stop using these kinds of comparisons.

Karyn Ball
Professor of English and Film Studies, University of Alberta

Omer Bartov
Samuel Pisar Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Brown University

Christopher R. Browning
Professor of History Emeritus, UNC-Chapel Hill

Jane Caplan
Emeritus Professor of Modern European History, University of Oxford

Alon Confino
Professor of History and Jewish Studies, University of Massachusetts, Amherst

Debórah Dwork
Director of the Center for the Study of the Holocaust, Genocide, and Crimes Against Humanity, Graduate Center—City University of New York

David Feldman
Director, Birkbeck Institute for the Study of Antisemitism, University of London

Amos Goldberg
The Jonah M. Machover Chair in Holocaust Studies, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

Atina Grossmann
Professor of History, Cooper Union, New York

John-Paul Himka
Professor Emeritus, University of Alberta

Marianne Hirsch
Professor Emerita, Comparative Literature and Gender Studies, Columbia University

A. Dirk Moses
Spitzer Professor of International Relations, City College of New York

Michael Rothberg
Professor of English, Comparative Literature, and Holocaust Studies, UCLA

Raz Segal
Associate Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Stockton University

Stefanie Schüler-Springorum
Director, Center for Research on Antisemitism, Technische Universität Berlin

Barry Trachtenberg
Rubin Presidential Chair of Jewish History, Wake Forest University

David49

Palestinian land rights should be respected and I hope in future the are, but that’s a side issue and clouds the need to stop the Gaza fighting and restore permanent peace and security. Stop the fighting, there will be an election in Israel and a moderate government will change the land rights policy.

I don’t care how that is done, lives come above land rights, if the only way to remove Hamas is to depopulate Gaza that’s the way it will be.

I believe you’re right on this.

Fortunately the majority of posters don’t go along with this twisted version of reality.

Claremont

Babs03

Correction Rabin could have ‘got’ somewhere….

Which is why he was assassinated by Zionists- who never ever wanted a Two State solution, and have been planning for a full take over of Gaza and the West Bank. Even Netanyahu talked about attacking Palestinians so hard and so often, until they just left, in 2001.

Hamas gave him the final excuse, on October 7th, tragically.

And yet, we all know now that Netanyahu could have very easily, with all the intelligence, warnings and the most sophisticated military, surveillance, etc, equipement at his disposal, stopped the October 7th attack when the wall was breached. We all know that HE CHOSE NOT TO - and many Israeli Jews, as well as people all over the world, who are NOT (capitals for emphasis, not shouting) antisemites, now understand why. Because he needed the attack to give him the final 'permission' for this genocide.

I am horrified by how far this poster will go when talking of the hamas atrocities in Israel.It’s upsetting and quite wrong.☹️

Claremont

And the Israelis want to wipe the Palestianians off the face of the Earth. Hate against hate, with more Hate on top!

Totally wrong. You're very ill informed.

We All Know! Not true , we do not all agree on this and we do not know what many Israeli Jews are thinking

Babs03

Correction Rabin could have ‘got’ somewhere….

Which is why he was assassinated by Zionists- who never ever wanted a Two State solution, and have been planning for a full take over of Gaza and the West Bank. Even Netanyahu talked about attacking Palestinians so hard and so often, until they just left, in 2001.

Hamas gave him the final excuse, on October 7th, tragically.

And yet, we all know now that Netanyahu could have very easily, with all the intelligence, warnings and the most sophisticated military, surveillance, etc, equipement at his disposal, stopped the October 7th attack when the wall was breached. We all know that HE CHOSE NOT TO - and many Israeli Jews, as well as people all over the world, who are NOT (capitals for emphasis, not shouting) antisemites, now understand why. Because he needed the attack to give him the final 'permission' for this genocide.

The five countries attacked Israel in 1948 because? their own dead ?

Yes us too much hate I feel for anything constructive to gain traction right now.
One thing to keep in mind is that the way human beings feel remains the same regardless of religion, race, or political ideology. And just as Israelis felt hell bent upon justice for the innocents killed on Oct 7th, Palestinians feel likewise about their own dead. And the majority are not blaming Hamas for this whether we believe that or not. So this is the way it is.

1948 , five Muslim countries attacked Israel,

And the Israelis want to wipe the Palestianians off the face of the Earth. Hate against hate, with more Hate on top!

The violence will not stop unless the Jews can be wiped off the face of the earth. Hamas said this

Correction Rabin could have ‘got’ somewhere….

Oh I believe you are right there David they will clear Gaza of Palestinians, which is ethnic cleansing, and even if the fighting stops for now do you suppose that will be it?
I imagine it most certainly will not. If I were an Israeli I would want Palestinians to have their rights and land back to stop the violence continuing, to be able to live in peace and not keep looking over my shoulder. Yitzhak Rabin could have hit somewhere with this if a far right Israeli hadn’t killed him.
As for a moderate government following this one, I doubt that will happen with Trump and Netanyahu in cahoots, they will make sure Gaza is repurposed for Israelis and many Israelis will be tempted to vote for more of the same, with a scaremongering election campaign and the allure of an expanded Israel ostensibly owned and protected by the US.
The days for moderation in any part of the world is becoming as much a part of history as Palestinian land or rights.
We are entering very dark days.

It's not a side issue. It's the issue!!

Palestinian land rights should be respected and I hope in future the are, but that’s a side issue and clouds the need to stop the Gaza fighting and restore permanent peace and security. Stop the fighting, there will be an election in Israel and a moderate government will change the land rights policy.

I don’t care how that is done, lives come above land rights, if the only way to remove Hamas is to depopulate Gaza that’s the way it will be.