Not such shocking news as the right-wing would have you believe

We can all appreciate that the problem of illegal immigrants is very hard to quantify and to find ways of dealing with in a humanitarian and thoughtful way. No government has cracked this problem yet.

Tub-thumping and whipping up hatred does not solve the issue. It just means that people who are here entirely legitimately are made to feel nervous of their fate and unwanted - when in fact they are much needed. The sort of people who read the Daily Mail are not interested in subtlety or humanity - they just see someone who looks and sounds different from them and feel free to treat them unpleasantly, egged on by the media and their inaccurate headlines - but once that headline is out there, there are many who will not bother to look behind the headline and ask whether it is true - it will just be fodder for their prejudices.

The last government tried to deal with it with their inhuman and failed Rwanda policy - which just proved to be a massive money pit. And in 14 years they found no other solution.

This new government is wanting to target the exploitative gangs, which is a reasonable approach - but has not yet had time to see results. And I am not expecting it to be simple. But it is at least civilized and humane and is targeting the right people.

I always contemplate what I might do if I was living under an oppressive regime where I feared for my life or could not feed my family. Might I not look to other countries to try and better my lot? - as indeed many UK citizens have done in various countries of the world. Those who are desperate are easy prey to criminals on the make.

This is not just a UK problem - there are so many countries grappling with the fine line between enforcement and humanity.

GrannyGravy13

M0nica I think you are missing the point.

The overseas workers who are here have been through a rigorous vetting system, are paying tax and NI and are known

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about those who are here under the radar (illegally) the authorities do not know the numbers, who they are and in most cases where they come from.

These are likely to be stuck with gang masters in what is basically modern day slavery, I am not happy with this situation, are you?

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Simple question Kadinsky but one without an answer…

The UK is not a big country . I don’t know where you put all these people, you must have an awful lot of traffic jams. I think it is awful here, we are overcrowded in the cities because everyone lives round the edges but it is nothing compared with England ( not so much Scotland, apparently) My old mum used to moan about overcrowding in London in the 70 s and 80 s.

M0nica This thread isn’t about people who are here legally - it’s about undocumented migrants and how many of them are in London.

The right-wing press got itself in hot water this week over a deeply misleading statistic that claimed one in twelve Londoners is an undocumented migrant

Ok, so what are the true figures?
1 in 20?
1 in 50?

It’s a simple enough question.

Premises in my road were raided by immigration authorities and several people were detained for being here without permission (illegal)

That is just one road in a small commuter belt village.

It doesn’t take a lot to multiply this scenario across the UK to realise that it is not a one off

It is the repeated use of the terms Right wing (bad) Left-wing (rarely used now but signifying good) that signifies a deliberate attempt to be divisive by use of labels.
I too would like to know the true number of migrants, categorised as legal, illegal, awaiting status, asylum seekers and refugees but I really do not believe that accurate records are kept, or available.

M0nica I think you are missing the point.

The overseas workers who are here have been through a rigorous vetting system, are paying tax and NI and are known

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about those who are here under the radar (illegally) the authorities do not know the numbers, who they are and in most cases where they come from.

These are likely to be stuck with gang masters in what is basically modern day slavery, I am not happy with this situation, are you?

Here are the figures. As close to verified as you can get.
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/commentaries/2024-a-year-in-uk-migration-issues/

These show that the vast majority of immigrants in this country are here legally, with visas.

Here are the figures on those illegal immigrants coming in on small boats. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511.

The vast majority of immigrants are here because employers, from the NHS and care industry, especially the NHS and care industry and other industries have gone out to other countries to poach the skilled people those poorer countries have traine.

Next time you come in contact with the NHS or care system. Count how many staff there would be if all those of immigrant stock were excluded.

If we have an immigrant problem, it comes, not from the illegal immigrants and asylum seekers (not necessarily one and the same thing) The real immigrant problem is that our economy has been so badly run, our education and forward planning so inadequate that we have not trained enough people to meet the needs of those already in this country.

Parties of all colours have found it easier to just iimport labour from abroad, whether doctors, or way back in Windrush days, bus drivers and conductors rather than pay the wage rates, or build the medical schools needed to provide us with the balanced economy we should have, so that we do not need so many immigrants to run it.

What existing thread?
If the op has started a thread that’s basically bulls**t she should come on here and apologise.
This particular op starts numerous threads on the same subject, so why should I go looking for her apology on her other threads?
I’d be here all day.

On the ITV breakfast news this morning, it was reported that since Labour came to power in July 2024 over 23,000 have arrived by boat.

There is always the possibility of course that not all who arrive this way are detected, the UK has a long coastline.

So why not add this to the existing thread for discussion?
And yes, the OP has already apologised on that thread.

Kandinsky

Does anyone know the true stats?
Op doesn’t seem to know them despite starting a thread about it.

Just another chance to defame those who are against mass migration. Especially those who enter this country illegally. There are many concerns amongst ordinary people, but of course we are all far right, according to Starmer, and his henchmen, to even talk about it.
Who fact checks what Zoe of Byline Times purports, blaming this country for illegal immigrants because we expect them to conform to our rules and regulations when they come here. Same as in any other country I believe, certainly as far as my family abroad have to do.

Oh I know.

It’s little phases like this that Whitewavemark2. uses
. Guess what - all lies

Ok, what’s the truth?

Guess what - she doesn’t know.

Unfortunately the bottom line is the last Government didn’t know and the current Government doesn’t know.

I expect the people posting so gleefully about this will be along to apologise for peddling misinformation.

Don't hold your breath though.

Does anyone know the true stats?
Op doesn’t seem to know them despite starting a thread about it.

Allsorts

If they throw passports in the sea and come over illegally, we only see what the boats bring and that's enough, how does anyone know how many there are. They disappear. Places like London, Slough, Leicester and a few other uk cities have the highest ethnic rate.
I am not right wing, or support any party now. However can’t be for this Labour lot, they couldn't organise a children's party. Its a matter of getting the best out of a bad bunch Starmer is no leader and makes bad choices. I don't think he cares about the UK.

By your logic there is no reason to suppose that there are far fewer asylum seekers than suggested.

The claim, as many Londoners could immediately tell, is completely false

So what are the true stats?
Can you provide them please.

I was wondering what magic was able to identify the migrants. Was their wee blue or something? Ridiculous.

If they throw passports in the sea and come over illegally, we only see what the boats bring and that's enough, how does anyone know how many there are. They disappear. Places like London, Slough, Leicester and a few other uk cities have the highest ethnic rate.
I am not right wing, or support any party now. However can’t be for this Labour lot, they couldn't organise a children's party. Its a matter of getting the best out of a bad bunch Starmer is no leader and makes bad choices. I don't think he cares about the UK.

It was so obviously misinformation. It seems facts just don't seem to matter any more.
I think it was on TRIP they were talking about people thinking it is now ok to have their own truth.
I despair.