Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

Zelensky spelling out what is becoming increasingly clear, that the US can no longer be considered an ally of Europe, the UK included. Any special relationship we might think we have is laughable, Trump will throw us under the bus the same as other nations.
This has to be acknowledged and addressed. It was once in America's interest to support Europe when Russia was their enemy but that is no longer the case now that Trump has made friends with Putin. It will be interesting to find out what Trump is getting in return for bringing Putin back into the fold and letting him off the hook for invading Ukraine. Help with acquiring Greenland perhaps.

Babs03

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo

Zelensky spelling out what is becoming increasingly clear, that the US can no longer be considered an ally of Europe, the UK included. Any special relationship we might think we have is laughable, Trump will throw us under the bus the same as other nations. I really don’t know how feasible a European army is but certainly we cannot discount that both Russia and the US could pose a real threat to our national security.
I know some will accuse me of being over the top about this but western nations stood by and watched whilst fascism rose in Europe back in the 1930s. Do we want to sleep walk into another scenario like this.
Trump has only one opinion ‘might is right’ and Putin feels the same, so Europe needs to take a leaf out of their handbook and show ‘might’ or fall by the way.

I absolutely agree!

Dorrain

Claremont Fri 14-Feb-25 21:04:26
Anyone who tries to have a serious discussion, on such a very serious and dangerous situation with this sentence

'I think we all need to take a chill pill.'

can't be taken seriously. Oh I am sure Ukrainians and Palestinians would be so happy if they could just 'take a chill pill'.

Another knee jerk reaction Claremont.

I am suggesting the posters take a chill pill, not the people in Gaza or Ukraine...

The thing is some of see the wider issues and bigger picture.

What Trump, Musk and Putin do and say has a huge impact of the rest of the world.

Telling anyone to “take a chill pill” is just patronising.

You may not be interested or concerned, many of us are.

Starmer's visit to/with Trump is not for a couple of weeks (just checked in the press, no date set) so I don't know if/how it will be related to Ukraine.

After saying 4 days ago "Ukraine may be Russian someday" Trump hasn't come up with a single "plan". His usual modus vivendi.

"“They (Ukraine) may make a deal, they may not make a deal. They may be Russian someday, or they may not be Russian someday,” Trump said. He stressed that he also wanted to see a return on investment with US aid for Ukraine, again floating the idea of a trade for Kyiv’s rare earth minerals."

(threats, mouthing off, deal for the US)

and of course he repeated that Putin entered a war because of Ukraine's interest in NATO.

He's not made any proposals at all. Sends Vance to sl** of European Leaders. Threaten countries with takeovers and tariffs. Crazy unworkable ideas in Gaza. Leaves them to stew and guess.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo

Zelensky spelling out what is becoming increasingly clear, that the US can no longer be considered an ally of Europe, the UK included. Any special relationship we might think we have is laughable, Trump will throw us under the bus the same as other nations. I really don’t know how feasible a European army is but certainly we cannot discount that both Russia and the US could pose a real threat to our national security.
I know some will accuse me of being over the top about this but western nations stood by and watched whilst fascism rose in Europe back in the 1930s. Do we want to sleep walk into another scenario like this.
Trump has only one opinion ‘might is right’ and Putin feels the same, so Europe needs to take a leaf out of their handbook and show ‘might’ or fall by the way.

David49

Trump promised us “shock and awe” we’ve certainly had the shock, nothing in the established order is safe.

He is proposing the unthinkable in Gaza, move the Palestinians, build a holiday resort and make billions. Ukraine should give up and accept what they’ve got left, Europe is dragging its heels on paying, why should we. If Europe really wants to push Russia back let them pay the cost of that, it’s not a big issue in the US.

Trump is so unpredictable he could even reverse his position on Ukraine. Honestly I don’t believe Europe will continue backing Ukraine without the US committed too, this argument in Munich is really about who pays and who gets the rewards. If Europe commits to paying more and providing the manpower, Zelensky gives him the mineral concessions he wants, Putin will get dumped.

Russia is outclassed by NATO if its full weight was activated, calling the nuclear bluff and providing full defence, Russia would crumble. Europe is in the front line and would have to accept the risk of some damage, much more cost and loss of life.

Its clear Trump is transactional - “what’s in it for the US”

Starmer is off to have a meeting with Trump so we'll see what happens there. After this Vance debacle it's going to be very difficult to make agreements with both USA and Europe.. I sincerely hope he sides strongly with Nato..

Trump is at least trying to do something about the war in Ukraine . Whether he can get the war stopped is a moot question but he is a lot better than his warmongering predecessor. It would just go on and on with the Democrats under Biden. However vile he might be as a person if he can stop this war and thereby save lives, good for him.

David49 Yes, I think what you say is a true reflection of DT and the regime now in the White House and what will/ could happen.

ronib

It’s about time the USA became transactional from one point of view- it’s been paying out hugely for a long time. Why not stop and ask what is the point of funding foreign wars/deaths? The question is worth asking?

The US got nothing out or Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya, Trump wants a payback, he certainly has the power end the wars if the price is right.

It’s about time the USA became transactional from one point of view- it’s been paying out hugely for a long time. Why not stop and ask what is the point of funding foreign wars/deaths? The question is worth asking?

Trump promised us “shock and awe” we’ve certainly had the shock, nothing in the established order is safe.

He is proposing the unthinkable in Gaza, move the Palestinians, build a holiday resort and make billions. Ukraine should give up and accept what they’ve got left, Europe is dragging its heels on paying, why should we. If Europe really wants to push Russia back let them pay the cost of that, it’s not a big issue in the US.

Trump is so unpredictable he could even reverse his position on Ukraine. Honestly I don’t believe Europe will continue backing Ukraine without the US committed too, this argument in Munich is really about who pays and who gets the rewards. If Europe commits to paying more and providing the manpower, Zelensky gives him the mineral concessions he wants, Putin will get dumped.

Russia is outclassed by NATO if its full weight was activated, calling the nuclear bluff and providing full defence, Russia would crumble. Europe is in the front line and would have to accept the risk of some damage, much more cost and loss of life.

Its clear Trump is transactional - “what’s in it for the US”

Looks too much like another Munich. And that was an ultimate disaster as we know.

pascal30

Churchview

Just a few of the 'ideas' Trump has thrown out there -

Laid off 200, 000 public servants,
Withdrew from the Paris Climate Agreement
Cancelled US Aid,
Stopped prosecution of people accused of bribing government officials,
Left the WHO,
Pardoned criminals who stormed the Capitol

and once he's sorted out Gaza and Ukraine he'll take on China!!

Doesn't bear thinking about does it?

Don't worry, folks, an asteroid could hit the Earth in about eight years time.

Claremont Fri 14-Feb-25 21:04:26
Anyone who tries to have a serious discussion, on such a very serious and dangerous situation with this sentence

'I think we all need to take a chill pill.'

can't be taken seriously. Oh I am sure Ukrainians and Palestinians would be so happy if they could just 'take a chill pill'.

Another knee jerk reaction Claremont.

I am suggesting the posters take a chill pill, not the people in Gaza or Ukraine...

Churchview

Just a few of the 'ideas' Trump has thrown out there -

Laid off 200, 000 public servants,
Withdrew from the Paris Climate Agreement
Cancelled US Aid,
Stopped prosecution of people accused of bribing government officials,
Left the WHO,
Pardoned criminals who stormed the Capitol

and once he's sorted out Gaza and Ukraine he'll take on China!!

Doesn't bear thinking about does it?

Just a few of the 'ideas' Trump has thrown out there -

Laid off 200, 000 public servants,
Withdrew from the Paris Climate Agreement
Cancelled US Aid,
Stopped prosecution of people accused of bribing government officials,
Left the WHO,
Pardoned criminals who stormed the Capitol

GrannyGravy13

Claremont sensitive or not it would be in the public domain.

I haven’t got FaceBook so any links via it I cannot access.

I posted a quote from a group, not FB, and a BBC link, not FB.

Anyone who tries to have a serious discussion, on such a very serious and dangerous situation with this sentence

'I think we all need to take a chill pill.'

can't be taken seriously. Oh I am sure Ukrainians and Palestinians would be so happy if they could just 'take a chill pill'.

I think we all need to take a chill pill.

It is very early days and from what I've seen Trump throws out a few ideas, feels the room and then starts negotiating.

Nothing is settled as yet, far from it.

I am not a fan of US Politics, either side of the equation but Trump has a point in regard to the amount of money the US spends propping up failing governments.

Europe has been sitting on its hands and lost control of many borders. Global politics has been disruptive and Europe has simply been tinkering around the edges.

People are tired of hard earned tax payer money going into minority based virtue projects. Citizenship should come with responsibilities such as working, paying tax and assimilating into the host countries laws and social expectations.

The Middle East, the Arab nations refuse to help out their own people in Gaza. The strip is now a uninhabitable and it will take a hell of a lot of money to fix. The US is not wiling to throw money into something which will unlikely unravel again. The wealthy Arab nations need to put their hands in their pockets, charity begins at home. Then, perhaps if they actually have a financial stake in the rebuild the religious and political argy bargy can be fixed in house.

Its early days and interesting times, lets just wait and see before we run off screaming 'the sky is falling.'!

I too was shocked at the way Sebastian Gorka spoke to Victoria Derbyshire. She kept her cool though.

Except that it’s not going to happen. Trump’s ego is too big not to flex it at every opportunity, he wants to be seen as a saviour.

If The US decides to stand back we will find out quick enough how united Europe is over Ukraine.

Excellent comment, David49

^”My personal view is that here in the UK we need to show that we are part of Europe's partnership and continue to commit support to Ukraine.
Trump loves Putin as he is the dictator that Trump wants to become in the USA. We need to stand up to both Trump & Putin. If we all work together then we will show both of them that we are strong”^

Hear, hear Shazmo24.

We in Europe need to stop being afraid of Trump and Putin!

Shazmo24

My personal view is that here in the UK we need to show that we are part of Europe's partnership and continue to commit support to Ukraine.
Trump loves Putin as he is the dictator that Trump wants to become in the USA. We need to stand up to both Trump & Putin. If we all work together then we will show both of them that we are strong.

If The US decides to stand back we will find out quick enough how united Europe is over Ukraine.

My personal view is that here in the UK we need to show that we are part of Europe's partnership and continue to commit support to Ukraine.
Trump loves Putin as he is the dictator that Trump wants to become in the USA. We need to stand up to both Trump & Putin. If we all work together then we will show both of them that we are strong.