Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

No, FriedGreenTomatoes I don't agree that thete ate two sides to this with the truth in the middle.
I don't even understand what uou mean with this.

Trump lies. He is in bed with Putin.
That's it.
🤷‍♀️

There’s two sides to this.
And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 🤔

Parsley3

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

Posting this again. Time is never wasted by checking facts.

It's precisely this kind of situation that makes you realise why certain people are so invested in 'defunding the BBC'.

CNN reporting that Putin has got all the concessions he has demanded, without any discussion. Trump is apparently parroting Putin, and completely caving in.

It is thought that Trump really could not care less about Ukraine/Europe, thus the race to complete the “deal”.

sorry, missed a quote on my last post above

"Some social media users are claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is a "dictator" since he allegedly imprisons his political opponents.

These claims are based on statements made by Tulsi Gabbard, who was recently designated as Donald Trump's future head of US intelligence

Another claim against Zelensky was made upthread, that he imprisoned his political rivals.

Not true:

fact check

www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20241125-does-ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky-imprison-his-political-opponents

"Truth or Fake: Does Ukraine's Zelensky imprison his political opponents? No"

Whitewavemark2

Donald Trump: “Russia fought for that land in Ukraine and lost a lot of soldiers doing it, so Russia should keep it.”

He is parroting Putin.

Honestly, you couldn’t make it up! It’s not Russia’s land, any of Ukraine.

NotSpaghetti

He still has a 54% rating - and I don't think the Ukrainian laws allow an election during a war.

Trump's lies are ridiculous but of course if you keep saying untruths loudly and repeatedly, people will swallow it.

BBC fact check on elections

"His first five-year term of office was due to come to an end in May 2024.

However, Ukraine has been under martial law since the Russian invasion in February 2022, which means elections are suspended.

In November 2022,

all parties in Ukraine's parliament backed postponing elections until the war end and Zelensky has vowed to hold a new election once the conflict ends

Ukraine's law banning presidential, parliamentary and local elections during wartime was passed in 2015, well before Zelensky was elected

so - it predates Zelensky: it was approved by all parties in Ukraine parliament.

Trump has every reason to try and get revenge on Ukraine/Zelensky.

Dont forget that Trump was impeached over contacts with Ukraine

'The Trump–Ukraine scandal was a political scandal that arose primarily from the discovery of U.S. President Donald Trump's attempts to coerce Ukraine into investigating his political rival Joe Biden and thus potentially damage Biden's campaign for the 2020 Democratic Party presidential nomination. (Wiki)"

It was National Security Council staffer Lt. Col. Alexander Vindaman in July 2019 who had been listening to the call later testified that Trump’s effort to pressure Zelensky into investigating domestic political rivals so alarmed him that he reported it to Eisenber

(Bloomberg)

Babs03

To my mind Trump is simply a mouthpiece for Putin atm, repeating Russian propaganda. I think this Russian organ grinder has got himself a very useful monkey.
Has Trump got no pride at all? He calls himself a patriot but with patriots like this who needs enemies?

He's just not very bright, though, is he. Cunning perhaps.
Putin can run rings round him.

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being a dictator.

The push is clearly on to rid themselves of Zelenskyy.

Europe must absolutely support him.

Must it? I can’t see that happening.
I think Zelensky, who’s no fool, now knows it’s over.A deal will be done with or without him.His only hope is that he keeps most of Ukraine and that in an election the people of Ukraine choose to vote for him to continue.

And that he and his family can cling on to their lives. Putin is unforgiving of his opponents.

To my mind Trump is simply a mouthpiece for Putin atm, repeating Russian propaganda. I think this Russian organ grinder has got himself a very useful monkey.
Has Trump got no pride at all? He calls himself a patriot but with patriots like this who needs enemies?

NotSpaghetti

He still has a 54% rating - and I don't think the Ukrainian laws allow an election during a war.

Trump's lies are ridiculous but of course if you keep saying untruths loudly and repeatedly, people will swallow it.

That was obvious during the Brexit referendum, and is obvioud now. Same people too. I always maintained that Putin's first step in destabilising Europe was Brexit, courtesy of his useful idiot Farage. Now he is using that fool Trump and publicly mocking him.

Donald Trump: “Russia fought for that land in Ukraine and lost a lot of soldiers doing it, so Russia should keep it.”

He is parroting Putin.

Propaganda 101:

#1: If you tell a lie big enough, and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

#2: Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.

#3: Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident that they are acting on their own free will.

#4: It [is] vitally important for the State..to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus...the greatest enemy of the State.

- Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister for "Public Enlightenment"
(Propaganda) in Nazi Germany.

He still has a 54% rating - and I don't think the Ukrainian laws allow an election during a war.

Trump's lies are ridiculous but of course if you keep saying untruths loudly and repeatedly, people will swallow it.

Whitewavemark2

Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being a dictator.

The push is clearly on to rid themselves of Zelenskyy.

Europe must absolutely support him.

Must it? I can’t see that happening.
I think Zelensky, who’s no fool, now knows it’s over.A deal will be done with or without him.His only hope is that he keeps most of Ukraine and that in an election the people of Ukraine choose to vote for him to continue.

palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank so that he can develop Gaza.. Trump is completely transactional..

Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being a dictator.

The push is clearly on to rid themselves of Zelenskyy.

Europe must absolutely support him.

Babs03

It sounds like Trump wants to replace Zelensky presumably with a more Trump friendly leader. Certainly all the talk about a lack of elections and Zelensky’s drop in ratings points towards this. And the new leader will probs be more pro Putin as well.

I agree Babs3.. Trump will get rid of Zelensky and split the the all the mining profits with Putin. Then he'll wait for Hamas releases the last of the hostages before encouraging Netanyahu
to resume the war and displace all Palanstinians

The last thing we need is people distorting or deliberately telling lies yet that’s where we are.
It seems our summer riots were fuelled by lies from Russian bots
We need to know who our enemy is and it certainly isn’t Zelensky

Parsley3

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

Posting this again. Time is never wasted by checking facts.

It is with some. Excellent article

Wyllow3

HousePlantQueen

Why so gleeful FGT? And where did your alternative facts come from?

A lot can be found on Guido Fawkes website.
Perhaps a matter of spinning a web of alternative facts into a narrative that favours Trump's attempts to dominate and undermine Europe and impose a Truth social Narrative and import it into the UK.

All sounds a bit 5th columnist to me.

HousePlantQueen

Why so gleeful FGT? And where did your alternative facts come from?

A lot can be found on Guido Fawkes website.
Perhaps a matter of spinning a web of alternative facts into a narrative that favours Trump's attempts to dominate and undermine Europe and impose a Truth social Narrative and import it into the UK.

Babs03

It sounds like Trump wants to replace Zelensky presumably with a more Trump friendly leader. Certainly all the talk about a lack of elections and Zelensky’s drop in ratings points towards this. And the new leader will probs be more pro Putin as well.

I think it’s most likely that Russia want Zelensky replaced, because he’s been too successful as president, with an anti Russia stance. He is also popular in Ukraine, and popular with leaders of regimes which are anti Russia’s behaviour. I think they underestimate the anti Russia feelings though, I can’t see anybody apart from USA wanting to reopen trade negotiations with them any time soon. In fact, I think both Putin and Trump have underestimated the lasting impact on the reputation of their countries.