Elections in Germany today

Claremont

wibblywobblywobblebottom

Yawn.

Yawn? Yawn what? Such a bizarre comment. Why?

👏

wibblywobblywobblebottom

Yawn.

Yawn? Yawn what? Such a bizarre comment. Why?

Very much my experience too. When everyone lives in similar housing, etc, they don't compare with others- and although some, especially younger people, aspire to more and better'- the security of knowing they will never be un-employed, or hungry, and will have support and health care when needed- felt safe and comfortable.

The concept of freedom definitely was a double edged sword. Some would become rich, others, the majortiy, would become poor. As has happened in the ex DDR.

PoliticsNerd

Sadly growstuff, for someone living hand to mouth, authoritarian government can easily be seen as something to hang on to as long as they are given enough to survive. There is a cost for democracy.

I visited East Germany twice before the wall came down and had permission to live with normal families. I don't think they really thought they were living hand to mouth. Admittedly, some household items were sometimes not available, but it didn't seem to cause huge problems. By the 1980s, the reports of huge queues outside supermarkets were exaggerated. The housing was poor quality, but perfectly adequate and, at least, everybody had a roof over their head. People seemed to know they were being watched, but they weren't paranoid. There was little glitz and glamour. People knew how people in the West lived because they had access to West German TV. Some were starry eyed about it, but the people I spoke to were aware of the benefits of living in a socialist state, where nobody was homeless, unemployed or starving.

My friend from Dresden left when the wall came down. She was 18 and, like many teenagers, wanted a better life (which she now has in the UK), but even she acknowledges that her childhood in East Germany wasn't that bad. Her father died when she was very young, so she was brought up by a single mother, who was given a lot of state support. As a parent now, she can compare with what the UK state provides and says that the support in East Germany was vastly superior.

Sadly growstuff, for someone living hand to mouth, authoritarian government can easily be seen as something to hang on to as long as they are given enough to survive. There is a cost for democracy.

PoliticsNerd

Thank you for the suggestions for films Silverlining48 and Willow. I guess we can all remember the wall coming down and what it meant to democracy and to Europe.

For the East Germans who lived through it, democracy has become a bit of a nebulous term. Looking at a map of Germany, showing who voted for the AfD, it's quite clear it's the former DDR.

Another standard A level German text is "Mother Courage", in which the quote "Food is the first thing. Morals follow on" (Erst kommt das Fressen, dann kommt die Moral).

Billions of euros have been spent on renovating Berlin, but glossy buildings aren't much compensation to people who can't afford their rents or childcare, have maybe lost their jobs and find their qualifications aren't considered equivalent to those of West Germans. As so often happens, scapegoats are sought and there are plenty of people to exploit people's prejudices.

Yes I have seen Goodbye Lenin Wyllow, also good.
I really recommend Lives of others. I have the dvd and showed it to a group of my German group at u3 recently and they were all impressed with the film and hadn’t realised quite how much control the stasi had over the lives of ordinary people. Very moving.

Oh that’s interesting escaped. My gd is doing German but at GCE level.

Thank you for the suggestions for films Silverlining48 and Willow. I guess we can all remember the wall coming down and what it meant to democracy and to Europe.

Great choices escaped as different angles on what it was like but would definitely hold student attention.

Yawn.

Both those films are on the list to be used by pupils in school studying A Level German. Both very good.

Yes, seen it. Excellent.

Have you also seen the film called Goodbye Lenin, which is also about the changes when the 'West' arrives and maybe isn't quite all it is cracked up to be although it doesn't paint any idealistic picture of the past either.

For anyone who wants to understand life in East Germany until the wall came down I recommend a film called Das Leben des Andere , The Lives of Others which won the best foreign film award some years ago.

Let’s not forget that many people protested against the AFD in the larger cities of Germany before the vote . I am talking 200,000 in Hamburg alone. There will be no coalition with the AFD .

Claremont

I spent time with some older people in Ribnitz and Rostock in East Germany, early 90s. Racism was rife there- I remember an immigrant Hostel being set on fire in the 80s there. Neo-nazi groups are still very active there- violent and very racist.

I witnessed virulent racism against Turkish residents in Berlin when I lived there, and was threatened with rape for sticking up to a young mum with chilren on the tram.

The DDR didn't have an Entnazifizierung policy, as the West did. Therefore, East Germany was stuck in a kind of time warp ideologically (the Baltic states are probably even worse), in addition to all the reasons (unemployment, high rents, high childcare costs) already mentioned. Not only that, but many of the million immigrants from the Merkel era ended up in low cost housing areas, which are mainly in the East - as has happened in the UK. I've seen that there is still a Wessie/Ossie divide in Germany.

Hiraeth

We here in Germany are in a bad situation . Danger from the right - wing party .Danger from Russia and danger from America .

It's not the Germany I first knew in the 1970s, that's for sure. Fingers crossed that a new coalition can work.

Claremont

I spent time with some older people in Ribnitz and Rostock in East Germany, early 90s. Racism was rife there- I remember an immigrant Hostel being set on fire in the 80s there. Neo-nazi groups are still very active there- violent and very racist.

I witnessed virulent racism against Turkish residents in Berlin when I lived there, and was threatened with rape for sticking up to a young mum with chilren on the tram.

Racism tends to much higher in the former Soviet states than in Western Europe. I have a friend who was born and brought up in Dresden, who left as soon as she could after reunification. She has said that one of the biggest culture shocks for her was that in West Germany and the UK overt racism just isn't accepted in the same way it was in the former East Germany. She still has friends and family in Dresden and is quite depressed about their attitude.

We here in Germany are in a bad situation . Danger from the right - wing party .Danger from Russia and danger from America .

As Claremont alluded to, East Germany under the USSR influence meant living under the Stasi horrors and highly regulated, had full employment and social benefits but a low standard of living and lives highly regulated.... many people were ill equipped to cope with that system pulled out. Best and brightest often moved to the west.

The high election results in east Germany have several reasons
many people think that the government and elected parties don’t represent them .some regions in east Germany are still struggling with high un- employment :

I spent time with some older people in Ribnitz and Rostock in East Germany, early 90s. Racism was rife there- I remember an immigrant Hostel being set on fire in the 80s there. Neo-nazi groups are still very active there- violent and very racist.

I witnessed virulent racism against Turkish residents in Berlin when I lived there, and was threatened with rape for sticking up to a young mum with chilren on the tram.

Quote Claremont Mon 24-Feb-25 10:56:18

Thanks, that is as I had assumed. They still have feelings of being neglected and feel unequal and disaffected as a result.

I remember the jubilation when the wall came down; my friend was there and send me a print of a line drawing someone had made which I still have.

Merz has indicated that he may well break Germany’s fiscal rules in order to begin to grow the economy.

I wonder if Reeves is listening?

Junglebub

There seems to be confusion in terminology. Naziism is ideologically left-wing - the clue is in the name!'

Have a look on line and see where nazism stands on the political spectrum, then read what it says.

I think you will then understand that the term socialism contained in the name has nothing to do with the left.

There seems to be confusion in terminology. Naziism is ideologically left-wing - the clue is in the name!'