Cossy I live in England and my friends and family don’t care too much for Starmer. Wes Streeting is about to make thousands of NHS workers redundant. We don’t bang on about it.
Are you irritating in RL? (light hearted)
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News & politics
The problem with Donald Trump....
(256 Posts)This was written during Trump's previous period as POTUS, and I think it sums up, eloquently, just what it is that Brits ( and presumably other nationalities) dislike about him. It is worth a read.
Nate White
“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:
A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.
Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.
Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.
There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.
And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.
So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.
This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.
And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
#Donald Trump
ronib
Casdon Trump doesn’t need to dismantle democracy to stay in power though does he? He has a very secure position at the moment and he cannot be ousted by democratic challenges. He is the choice of his people.
There are a number of ways of ending a dictatorship or potential dictatorship which threatens a democracy ronib, as surely you are aware, but if not I suggest a check through the history books, as examples abound.
Arto1s
I live in the US. After 4 years of Biden’s incompetence I am happy to say I voted for Trump and that he won.
In which state?? Do you have daughters?
foxie48
Following your argument, Ronib the British people should have respected those who put Hitler in power, those who supported Pol Pot, and those who followed Chairman Mao. Fortunately we live in a country where we have certain freedoms.
With regard to foreigners denigrating us, wasn't it Musk who used the Munich Security Meeting to attack the whole of Europe just a few days ago? It is perfectly acceptable for anyone to say what they like about Trump provided they don't break any laws. Didn't Trump say that Ukraine caused the war and that the Palestinians should vacate Gaza so he could turn it into a holiday resort? You really expect people to say nothing about his behaviour out of respect for those who voted for him? Really?
Oh how I agree 👏👏👏
ronib
Casdon Trump doesn’t need to dismantle democracy to stay in power though does he? He has a very secure position at the moment and he cannot be ousted by democratic challenges. He is the choice of his people.
He is the choice of around 55% if the voting population, that leaves an awful lot of people not supporting him.
Arto1s
76% of the American people support DOGE. It is a wonderful endeavour. Everything he has proposed so far is met with overwhelming approval by the public. The numbers don’t lie. All the protests so far have been proven to be funded and organised by “professional” protestors.
May I just ask where you live and from where you get your intel?
I have both friends and relatives in the US (& Canada in fact)
My US friends/family are just appalled by Trump/Musk/Vance and DOGE.
What about the all the people losing their jobs and contracts?
Casdon Trump doesn’t need to dismantle democracy to stay in power though does he? He has a very secure position at the moment and he cannot be ousted by democratic challenges. He is the choice of his people.
"Winston Churchill once said that: “democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.” His cynicism was perhaps justified after the British people voted him out from his position as Prime Minister within months of winning the Second World War."
blogs.fcdo.gov.uk/petermillett/2014/03/05/the-worst-form-of-government/
"Democracy is not only about elections: it is also about creating and encouraging the building blocks of an open and fair society: the rule of law, protection of minorities, strong political parties, liberty, a free media, a strong role for civil society and action against corruption." ibid
ronib
Unfortunately the way democracy works is that even Hitler gained power legitimately. What is the alternative?
Gaining power legitimately does not give any party or leader the mandate to become a dictatorship ronib. Dismantling democracy to remain in power is what Trump is doing, and the majority of Americans object to him doing that, as evidenced by their actions and objections, as welll as opinion polls and judicial actions.
Unfortunately the way democracy works is that even Hitler gained power legitimately. What is the alternative?
Said Artols "Ultimately, this entire forum is full of opinions which people either agree with or not." There are certainly posts from people who either agree or disagree and say little more, bu there are also people who take the trouble to dig a bit deeper and find out exactly who said or did what, what the business-running history is of those who tell us they are running the US as a business, what the economic effect of some of their "business" operations is likely to be on the country's finances, and what the human cost is certain to be of many others.
Not just subjective opinions, but verified facts and intelligent predictions are needed - and these posters add links to those verified facts and intelligent predictions, so that other people don't have to rely only on rumours on X, FB, and other second-hand sources to form their opinions.
I admit to having opinions on all sorts of things, but I do try to base them on facts, evidence and truth.
By the way, thank you for that list of those who are helping Trump and also Musk (don't miss out the organ-grinder) to immobilise the organisations which try to keep the US running and its people healthy and thriving. Now the facts about the qualifications for appointment and previous work history of these helpers can be added to other facts. I hope they are able to rebuild those instruments of government in democratic (with a small d) working order in as short a time as it takes to stop them operating properly.
It is quite hard to understand, let alone respect, a group of people (especially the w)omen who voted for a man who boasted on camera, "I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. ... Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything."
Following your argument, Ronib the British people should have respected those who put Hitler in power, those who supported Pol Pot, and those who followed Chairman Mao. Fortunately we live in a country where we have certain freedoms.
With regard to foreigners denigrating us, wasn't it Musk who used the Munich Security Meeting to attack the whole of Europe just a few days ago? It is perfectly acceptable for anyone to say what they like about Trump provided they don't break any laws. Didn't Trump say that Ukraine caused the war and that the Palestinians should vacate Gaza so he could turn it into a holiday resort? You really expect people to say nothing about his behaviour out of respect for those who voted for him? Really?
ronib
It’s not Trump who is necessarily due our respect but the voters in the USA. We need to understand that we may not agree with an outcome but in this case, it isn’t ours to choose.
I wouldn’t be too thrilled if I read how appalling our Labour government is here - posted daily on foreign websites. I know how inadequate they are but respect for the 20 per cent who voted for them.
Free-speech, which is part of the American Constitution - First Amendment - does not demand that anyone has to respect the choice made by voters.
Although we don't have a similar constitution in the UK, we are also allowed to criticise the political choices made by others, and the actions of those people they choose.
Respect is something you are allowed to have free-choice over, to give or with-hold. We aren't compelled to respect anyone by law - only the law itself. And even then, you can feel contempt for it, as long as you abide by it.
It’s not Trump who is necessarily due our respect but the voters in the USA. We need to understand that we may not agree with an outcome but in this case, it isn’t ours to choose.
I wouldn’t be too thrilled if I read how appalling our Labour government is here - posted daily on foreign websites. I know how inadequate they are but respect for the 20 per cent who voted for them.
Well, of course European leaders will be diplomatic, they have no other choice. That doesn’t equal respect
Why should anyone show ‘a bit of respect’ to Trump, who has shown not a shred of respect to anyone other than Putin and Musk
The USA has chosen Trump over Harris - their country, their choice. Get over it. A bit of respect wouldn’t go amiss.
Yes I think you're right, MaizieD but most won't be. Land of the free and all that. Goodness knows how this is going to pan out. I'm genuinely concerned about civil unrest and with that many guns in the mix, who knows what might happen.
However, following yesterday's announcement with regard to the White House deciding which reporters gets access to the President, it seems he's implementing the first steps of a Dictator. ie control of the media so in the future you might find your information sources become limited to those who report the Trump message!
I do think that we have to accept that a significant number of people are absolutely fine with the idea of a dictatorship. It’s good, strong government with no nit pickers moaning about rules, law and ethics. I imagine that our friend Arto1s is one of them.
How do you feel about the way he’s treating your National Parks?
I don’t think the fate of the parks themselves is a factor that is considered by trump supporters. The successful elimination of all those time wasting, ineffective, expensive and probably ’woke’ (after all, looking after a national park is a bit ‘wet’, isn’t it) employees is an achievement to glory in…
Artols listing the names of the people that Trump has put in place in his administration does not support your argument that he is a good president. Especially when there has been so much concern about their unsuitability, not just from Democrats but also from Republicans.
I don't know where you get your information but as already said your claim that 78% of Americans approve of Trump is completely unsubstantiated. One month in and he's already losing a lot of support. However, following yesterday's announcement with regard to the White House deciding which reporters gets access to the President, it seems he's implementing the first steps of a Dictator. ie control of the media so in the future you might find your information sources become limited to those who report the Trump message!
That’s what’s so scary Artols - that people
voted for this wretched excuse for a human being. It makes us think a huge proportion of Americans are lacking in intelligence and human decency and think the world consists of America only.
Sorry but you shouldn’t be posting on a thread decrying Trump and say you voted for him without expecting people to think you’re deluded.
Brilliant article OP, spot on.
Arto1s
I live in the US. After 4 years of Biden’s incompetence I am happy to say I voted for Trump and that he won.
How do you feel about the way he’s treating your National Parks?
I live in the US. After 4 years of Biden’s incompetence I am happy to say I voted for Trump and that he won.
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