Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

Surely it's of mutual benefit?

If Trump spoke in an intelligent, thoughtful and considered way perhaps others might listen. He's irrational, childish and doesn't come across as very intelligent.

What is almost interesting is that Europe needs to listen to what Trump is trying to say - I heard it’s about time Europe sorted itself out and stopped looking to the USA for support.
So Starmer’s right to try to gauge likely support from the USA but I won’t be surprised if there’s minimal enthusiasm from Trump. This will of course mean that Europe needs to pay its way on defence spending.
So Starmer is showing some logic here but don’t be surprised if Trump continues to step back from the conflict.

Whitewavemark2

Europe is working on a peace plan with Starmer leading the way.

The intention is that once the peace plan is finalised that it will then be discussed with Trump.

I suspect that if there is nothing in it that is lucrative for Trump he will turn it down. He is an absolute menace.

I was glad that Starmer said on Kuenessberg this morning, that the US will be brought in for talks after Europe has made a plan.Tbh I think Starmer is doing a better job on the world stage than he has so far on domestic matters.Nice to see him hug Zelensky at Downing Street and meeting the King is one in the eye for Trump.
Let’s hope that things go better from this point today.

MaizieD

Allira

MaizieD

Allira

They were the Soviet Union's nuclear arms, left there when Russia left.

The Soviet Union was undoubtedly controlled from Russia, but Russia is not the Soviet Union, so had no more entitlement to the weapons than did Ukraine, who was also part of the Soviet Union.

I don't know if your implication was that because they were USSR weapons Russia had a say over them once the USSR was dissolved. It doesn't seem like a correct conclusion to me.

Well, I do realise that it was the Soviet Union of course but most countries did not choose to be part of it and it was definitely Russia which was in charge. Ukraine did not dissent, was an original member and thd union did offer security to some countries.

That has nothing to do with your apparent assertion that the nuclear weapons held by Ukraine belonged to Russia.

I still maintain that the Soviet Union was the Russian project, the most powerful country, and that, in all probability, none of the other countries which had nuclear weapons on their soil would gave done so.
The weapons were deactivated and returned to Russia.

merlotgran

^More and more, the question is, what has Putin got on Trump that he can use to his advantage^.

Why would Putin need to wrong foot Trump when he’s doing his job for him?

You misunderstood I think. Trump is doing his job indeed, but why. Many reasons, power, riches- but perhaps 'pressure' from him in one way or another. Is blackmail part of this?

When it comes to ending wars I suppose we could have just given Poland to Hitler and called it a day.
This isn’t, as Trump keeps saying, just about ending a war, it is about starting an even worse chapter in Europe.

I don’t think Putin needs anything on Trump, as a leader Trump sees himself as strong arming any possible dissent or those he sees as opposing him abroad, this has been clearly demonstrated with Zelenskyy, is not just the way of a bully but the way of a dictator, so of course he admires Putin and sees himself as very similar. He admires Netanyahu for possessing the same brutal attributes.
We need to exit our now ‘not so special’ relationship with the US if we want to avoid being dragged into Trumps fascist orbit.
Europe has to band together now.

Allira

MaizieD

Allira

They were the Soviet Union's nuclear arms, left there when Russia left.

The Soviet Union was undoubtedly controlled from Russia, but Russia is not the Soviet Union, so had no more entitlement to the weapons than did Ukraine, who was also part of the Soviet Union.

I don't know if your implication was that because they were USSR weapons Russia had a say over them once the USSR was dissolved. It doesn't seem like a correct conclusion to me.

Well, I do realise that it was the Soviet Union of course but most countries did not choose to be part of it and it was definitely Russia which was in charge. Ukraine did not dissent, was an original member and thd union did offer security to some countries.

That has nothing to do with your apparent assertion that the nuclear weapons held by Ukraine belonged to Russia.

Great U tube -
Angry Americans flood streets after Oval Office debacle
Fresh off his confrontation with Volodymyr Zelensky,

America’s Vice President J.D. Vance has been greeted by furious crowds as he hits the ski slopes in Vermont.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcHw9tb2Pkw

Just discovered that the "guy" (can't really say "journalist") who was rude about Zelenskyy's attire, is the partner of Trump's right winger Marjorie Taylor Greene.

More and more, the question is, what has Putin got on Trump that he can use to his advantage.

Why would Putin need to wrong foot Trump when he’s doing his job for him?

Listening to the Laura K show this morning, interviewing Keir Starmer. How lucky we are to have someone who is so calm, with quiet and clear gravitas and determination.

Mt61

Should have had that debate in private I feel.

It was very deliberate and calculated, to humiliate and threaten Zelenski publicly. The puppet master, Putin, was perhaps (probably) right behind, as LizzieDrip says above.

More and more, the question is, what has Putin got on Trump that he can use to his advantage? Videos of very dodgy behaviour, with women provided, in the past? (from his Karkov days from 87)- or information about huge sums of Russian money to bail out Trump, again and again.

Will have to watch later, am on the tube, but seeing Morgan making sense is worth watching. 🤣

A very interesting discussion on Laura Kuenssberg this morning. Even Piers Morgan is talking sense.

To suppose Zelenskyy doesn’t want to end the war and is prolonging it for no good reason goes against the grain. What Zelenskyy and Europe don’t want is Putin rewarded by Trump by gifting him part of Ukraine, the part with the rich minerals in it no doubt, after which Putin will emerge a much wealthier victor prepared to expand Russia even further. My guess is that a pro Putin leader will be shoehorned in after Zelenskyy has no choice than to step down due to increasing threats to up the bombing of Ukraine without the US offering any help, and then Putin will reclaim the whole of Ukraine by stealth.

ronib

Trump has very neatly taken the USA out of a future World War 3. Starmer has just put us into it.

You got that arse ways round, if you’ll excuse the language ronib.
🙄

That was to come after Elegran's post.

Or is Trump "playing a very clever game of some sort?"

He thinks of himself as a master negotiator.
And I assume there are things going on behind the scenes that we may know nothing about.

I cant really understand where this has all come from.
How many commentators and people have there been that saw all this coming?
Most of the world seems to have got caught on the back foot.

Though some people were saying that Trump isnt as much against Russia as he should be.

Europe is working on a peace plan with Starmer leading the way.

The intention is that once the peace plan is finalised that it will then be discussed with Trump.

I suspect that if there is nothing in it that is lucrative for Trump he will turn it down. He is an absolute menace.

ronib

Trump has very neatly taken the USA out of a future World War 3. Starmer has just put us into it.

Trump has neatly put himself at odds with most of the countries in the world. He has alienated several by demanding that they cede some of their territory or assets to the US. That pulls the US away from the peaceloving countries around the globe, and draws it into the orbit of Russia and Putin, who himself is in competition with China for influence over smaller and weaker nations. This makes WW3 more likely than when the US was aligned with the rest of Nato and regarded Putin as having inherited the Soviet Union's position as number one threat.

Whether his MAGA followers realise that they are currently being groomed to reject their previous allies and move instead into Putin's sphere is another question. They have so long considered Russia as the ultimate enemy that they may be only wake up when they in the bear's embrace

What is your solution to end the war? Casdon

ronib

Trump has very neatly taken the USA out of a future World War 3. Starmer has just put us into it.

That statement is an oxymoron ronib.

How depressing to read today that most Republicans laud Trump for his behaviour towards Zelensky; some are horrified it seems, but generally his bullying is acknowledged as the way to behave.

Trump has very neatly taken the USA out of a future World War 3. Starmer has just put us into it.