Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

woodenspoon

Wyllow3

But woodenspoon, Trump had no peace deal to offer What's the point in creating a crisis point with no substance?

The crisis point is getting Europe to pay up on defence and not rely on the US to bankroll it. Money talks with Trump, it’s why he’s a successful business man. Money, deals, it’s what he knows. Now, he’s achieved that. They’ve got to pay up or shut up.

Woodenspoon, bankroll what?

I repeat, Trump offered a peace deal not just getting Europe to pay for a continuing war.

Where was the peace deal? What have all the talks with Putin been about? Did Putin actually ever concede a single square mile of land talking to Trump?

why should Zelensky or Europe for that matter sign away mineral rights for absolutely nothing tangible in return

I have been catching up with some American bloggers I watch (for context, I have immediate family who are American). They are mainly Lawers who explain what is happening in the courts.

There was, however, a comment I thought was relevant to discussion on here.

"There is a very dark fact I think we all have to face up to, which is that our President looks at Vladimir Putin, looks at Xi Jinping, and thinks, "I like those guys. I like there systems, I share their values, I have more in common with them than I do with leaders in Europe."

Ok. I’m against war of any kind. I don’t believe in death and destruction for the sake of it. That’s what I stand for ViceVersa. What do you stand for as a matter of interest?

Whether Trump is palatable to those of you on here or not, he is trying to broker a peace deal which may, or may not, mean he gains something from that. But, everybody who supplies weapons, manpower and drones are gaining something in all these wars. The arms industry for example. Nobody is doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. We have hundreds of Ukrainians living in the UK. Using our healthcare and resources. What are we gaining? Before anybody starts, I don’t dislike Ukrainians because at least they’re not stabbing us with knives or blowing us up.

What is the purpose of keeping this war going if there is a way to peace? If it means that Europe takes over the defence of Ukraine then we will all be in the firing line. It would be interesting to see how long these old alliances hold if that came to fruition.

I think what happened yesterday was a result of long harboured grudges and the fact it appeared he supported Biden. Also, under reported and as I mentioned before, Zelensky shouted and screamed at one of Trumps envoys last week when he visited Ukraine. Not caught on camera though, but reported in the BBC website.

I think it’s important to remember being a president or PM or leader of a country is a JOB, and as such conduct should be respectful and professional.

I wonder how long we’d have kept our own jobs if we behaved as Trump and Vance do?

woodenspoon

Ok. I’m against war of any kind. I don’t believe in death and destruction for the sake of it. That’s what I stand for ViceVersa. What do you stand for as a matter of interest?

Whether Trump is palatable to those of you on here or not, he is trying to broker a peace deal which may, or may not, mean he gains something from that. But, everybody who supplies weapons, manpower and drones are gaining something in all these wars. The arms industry for example. Nobody is doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. We have hundreds of Ukrainians living in the UK. Using our healthcare and resources. What are we gaining? Before anybody starts, I don’t dislike Ukrainians because at least they’re not stabbing us with knives or blowing us up.

What is the purpose of keeping this war going if there is a way to peace? If it means that Europe takes over the defence of Ukraine then we will all be in the firing line. It would be interesting to see how long these old alliances hold if that came to fruition.

I think what happened yesterday was a result of long harboured grudges and the fact it appeared he supported Biden. Also, under reported and as I mentioned before, Zelensky shouted and screamed at one of Trumps envoys last week when he visited Ukraine. Not caught on camera though, but reported in the BBC website.

Perhaps it also had something to do with Trump almost being impeached last time he was in office?

The envoy Zelensky screamed at is Scott Bessent.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49800181.amp

Recalling the president's fury, Ukrainian lawmakers claimed Zelensky's bellows reverberated through the halls of Kyiv's presidential palace as he laid into Bessent for expecting him to 'sell his country' to Washington.

'He was very angry,' a person present told the Financial Times, explaining how the gilded doors of Zelensky's presidential office did nothing to stop those outside from hearing every word of the verbal beatdown.

Bessent was visibly shaken, his voice trembling as he delivered a stumbling statement to reporters moments after enduring the wrath of the Ukrainian President.

woodenspoon

Trump is pushing the Putin agenda - absolutely no question.

We all want peace but certainly not at any price.

There has to be red lines.

It is clear that Trump has indicated that as a NATO member he would not be prepared to defend countries in Eastern Europe , so Putin will simply walk into any country he chooses in Eastern Europe, especially those he sees as part of the Russian empire.

Then what?

I imagine every poster here will answer your question with I stand for peace.
Where the majority stand is a just peace, one that doesn’t reward the aggressor. The support Trump is giving Russia is difficult to understand. A peace ‘deal’ isn’t negotiated by demanding payment and thanks for support your country promised. Then giving the invader the land it invaded.
I’m not surprised Zelensky is reported to have shouted in discussion with the American official, especially if the message being delivered was give us yiur minerals or well leave you to be slaughtered

Watching Trump and Vance, two powerful, dishonest, bullies behaviour towards Trump reminded me why indigenous tribes live on reservations with all their land stolen

woodenspoon

Recalling the president's fury, Ukrainian lawmakers claimed Zelensky's bellows reverberated through the halls of Kyiv's presidential palace as he laid into Bessent for expecting him to 'sell his country' to Washington.

'He was very angry,' a person present told the Financial Times, explaining how the gilded doors of Zelensky's presidential office did nothing to stop those outside from hearing every word of the verbal beatdown.

Bessent was visibly shaken, his voice trembling as he delivered a stumbling statement to reporters moments after enduring the wrath of the Ukrainian President.

What would any leader had done?

Can we remember Russia is the aggressor, not Ukraine, Russia started the war, not Ukraine, Putin thought this war would end in a few short weeks and that he would then have control of Ukraine.

No one wants war (no sane person), but the alternative? Cave in and give your country away? Then what? Putin moves into the next country?

Jeremy Bowen on I player analysis this morning:

"It's not just the minerals deal that he refused to sign.

Ukrainians believe they are in a war for national survival - and that Putin would break any promise to end the war if he is not deterred.

That's why Zelensky asked repeatedly for American security guarantees.

The meeting ignited into a shouting match after an intervention by Vice-President JD Vance.

There are suspicions now that the public row was - in the words of one diplomatic observer - a planned political mugging: either to force Zelensky to do America's bidding, or to precipitate a crisis that would allow them to blame him for whatever happens next

I am in no doubt that it was a ‘planned political mugging; either to force Zelensky to do America’s bidding, or to precipitate a crisis that would allow them to blame him for whatever happens next”

It was such a shocking scene. It shouldn’t have happened on tv but there we have Trump announcing it would make great television. ‘Great tv’ - only to those who don’t understand the need for public diplomacy.

Those two bullies as role models for boys and men? The Tate brothers will be on the White House staff role soon

I totally agree with you Dickens, how anyone can get a kick out of seeing someone humbled by these two crazy men, who are power mad.
President Zelensky had no where to to hide.
And zero respect from both Trump and Vance to a democratatly elected President, Putin is pulling all of the strings here.

I watched most of the exchange and I was so disheartened. Vance andTrump Know nothing of war they are privileged they’ve never lost loved ones they’ve never seen the horror. Vance talks about diplomacy To Putin diplomacy is giving part or all of Ukraine to him
Putin is trying to reinstate a block that he had years ago. This is obvious especially to those of my age? Ukraine is fighting for their homeland and for this I stand in admiration. The US stood by far too long during the holocaust and it looks like they’re going to do the same again and this is shameful. I’m so saddened by this just so saddened!

Littlebea02

I watched most of the exchange and I was so disheartened. Vance andTrump Know nothing of war they are privileged they’ve never lost loved ones they’ve never seen the horror. Vance talks about diplomacy To Putin diplomacy is giving part or all of Ukraine to him
Putin is trying to reinstate a block that he had years ago. This is obvious especially to those of my age? Ukraine is fighting for their homeland and for this I stand in admiration. The US stood by far too long during the holocaust and it looks like they’re going to do the same again and this is shameful. I’m so saddened by this just so saddened!

👏👏👏👏

Really FGT2, “sycophants massaging Zelensky’s ego” how do you justify that.

winterwhite

Really FGT2, “sycophants massaging Zelensky’s ego” how do you justify that.

I doubt she can.

Awful thing to say.

Woodenspoon You appeared to be been making excuses for Trump. I asked where you stood when it came to supporting a convicted criminal who is dismantling democracy in his (not our) country.

Although not relevant to my question, your views on "death and destruction" are interesting. Perhaps we need another thread to discuss those. I might dicuss the night I sat in a car while a man pointed a rifle at my father's head. The rifle holder considered the British to be his enemy. Thankfully we will never know how I would have reacted if he started killing us, but it does make you realise that theory is one thing and fact quite another. I imagine the vast majority would do anything to save themselves and their loved ones, if they could.

I think we'd all say we were against war, death and destruction, would we not? But I hate bullies of any kind, and that includes Trump and Vance.

For those on here saying Trump is for peace - there is / was no peace deal.

The only deal on the table was the minerals deal.

Trump saying oh Putin will stop the bombing; Putin be fine with European peacekeepers in Ukraine, blah blah, does not make it so.

Trump knows there’s no ceasefire deal. Yesterday he and his cronies attempted to disorientate Zelensky so he’d sign the minerals deal. They were ‘flooding the zone’ as Steve Bannon puts it; it’s apparently a tactic they often use.

Once Trump had his mineral deal signed, job done as far as he’s concerned. He can then say ‘I tried but Putin won’t agree to a ceasefire’.

Trump doesn’t care about the Ukrainian people; he doesn’t care about peace; he cares about money.

I’m surprised that some on here really believe Trump ever intended to broker a peace deal.

killing another million young people and commanding another country are both wrong in my mind ronib.

And you can't make a peace alone you know!

Kandinsky

*54-57% approval rating in his own country*

That’s not a great approval rating is it.
75 - 80% yes.

Ha ha.
Maybe it's a lot bigger after the Vance/Trump incident.

It's still more than Trump, Starmer et al.
I think only Narendra Modi touches 70%!

LizzieDrip

For those on here saying Trump is for peace - there is / was no peace deal.

The only deal on the table was the minerals deal.

Trump saying oh Putin will stop the bombing; Putin be fine with European peacekeepers in Ukraine, blah blah, does not make it so.

Trump knows there’s no ceasefire deal. Yesterday he and his cronies attempted to disorientate Zelensky so he’d sign the minerals deal. They were ‘flooding the zone’ as Steve Bannon puts it; it’s apparently a tactic they often use.

Once Trump had his mineral deal signed, job done as far as he’s concerned. He can then say ‘I tried but Putin won’t agree to a ceasefire’.

Trump doesn’t care about the Ukrainian people; he doesn’t care about peace; he cares about money.

I’m surprised that some on here really believe Trump ever intended to broker a peace deal.

Sadly I agree.

He’s already blaming Ukraine, for the war and for not agreeing a “peace deal”.

Im going to add my 'two-pennorth' now. This morning I came across the whole 40 min video of the Oval Office meeting. It started off very congenially, smiley, chatty from both Trump and Zelenski with no hint of what was to follow.

To me it seems that it all started to go wrong when Vance everly aggressive in my view, interjected; Zelenski then couldn't get a word in and allegedly insulted Vance in Ukrainian under his breath, and his body language bceame very defensive-arms folded etc.

This is also when it seems that for some inexplicable reason Zelenski tried to start real negotiations and it all rapidly went downhill after that as it was not the time/place to do so.
He was being shouted down as we all saw and total meltdown was the result.

Appalling in my view- no excuses can justify it.
I'll try and post the link although interestingly when I scrolled back to try and find the post I'd read earlier on Musk's X- I couldn't find it- only the clips of the meltdown are available now. Hmm...