Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

ronib

Or another way of thinking about it is that Trump has changed the way the presidency works. Trump decides what he thinks. The body of advisors don’t hold the balance of power. Something has changed.

I look forward to hearing what peace proposals follow from this debacle. If any.

That is not how the American constitution works though ronib. Are you suggesting they should rewrite it or that he just imposes it on American citizens?

"The" papers may have called it that FriedGreenTomatoes2. More fool those who listened.

Diplomacy is a bit like cleaning the loo. You must protect yourself from any fallout and know that, while the result should be worthwhile - a better life for all involved - it is an unpleasant duty that may occasionally cause you to feel sick with what you have to deal with.

Or another way of thinking about it is that Trump has changed the way the presidency works. Trump decides what he thinks. The body of advisors don’t hold the balance of power. Something has changed.

I look forward to hearing what peace proposals follow from this debacle. If any.

So, Trump is a pacifist, according to his supporters on here?
What about the war in Gaza? Will he stop supplying Israel with munitions?

A couple of points nobody has yet mentioned. I read in the Telegraph I think or maybe on bbc news that Zelensky screamed and shouted at one of Trumps men who visited Ukraine last week. Of course this wasn’t caught on camera. The US envoy concerned was left very shaken by this reportedly. Just to add context.

The Baltic states are very angry that they haven’t been invited to the UK meeting tomorrow. None of the EU can agree and they have endless meetings and issue statements without real change. Trump has forced them to confront reality on defence spending. Crudely, perhaps, but it had to be done.

Even someone I know who agrees with Trump pretty much all of the time, thinks Trump has it wrong on Ukraine.

Disgusting, and pre-planned, behaviour from a draft dodger and his ignorant side kick. Why the sudden change, only 24 hours, from nicey nicey with Macron and Starmer? What did Putin threaten him with? Was it all going too dangerously well for Europe?
He won't be getting his rare minerals or his Nobel Peace Prize now.

Baggs

I tend to agree, GG13, but it did just occur to me that this is their clumsy and rude, but poosibly effective, way of getting Europe to install better defence systems in their own countries instead of lazily depending on the US. Trump has, after all, always made it clear that he thinks European countries should bump up their defence capabilities.

I think you’re forgetting some history. Europe became a US military base because of US fear/hatred of the Soviet Union and the non soviet European countries were broke after WW2. The US has been perfectly content to keep shelling out, and to embroil us in its military interferences in various places.

It’s only Trump, with his US as a business which is being sh*t on by its allies, views who has changed the dynamic.

ronib

PoliticsNerd but you have to remember that all information on the character of a politician is through the prism of social media. We don’t know Trump. We will never be anywhere him. He is not the class bully in that sense.

Trump has enormous political power. I don’t think that he overstepped his role when suggesting Zelensky work out a peace agreement and not another ten years of war.

Trump has shown his true colours many times over the past few years. We may not know him personally, but we have seen enough of him to judge his character. Bullying and humiliating people is what he does. He has demonstrated that on many occasions - live on TV.

On Sunday, (2 March 2025), the NATO Secretary General, Mr Mark Rutte, will travel to London, United Kingdom, to attend a meeting of European leaders on Ukraine.

This is where we will see what can be done. Not in a confected argument in America. Maybe America will help in the future, rushing in at the end and claiming it as their victory while charging us for the privilege as is their nature. Who knows?

But hopefully this meeting will be held behind closed doors and ended with carefully crafted statements. And nobody, but nobody will mind that Zelensky comes dressed for the war he and his country are actually fighting.

Maybe it’s just plain rude to keep asking for money? nanna8

Macron is an idiot posturer and I think Trump sees through him.
So much for the ‘bromance’ the papers were talking about on Wednesday.

America won’t become the enemy of the UK but things will change, that’s for sure. Europe needs to unite and pool their resources but somehow I can’t see that happening either. I hope this war will end, it needs to but bullying like that just antagonises everyone. They should have kept it behind closed doors, Trump was just plain rude.

Barleyfields didn’t make myself clear - I thought social media included newspapers and reading articles. In other words, I don’t have a direct and personal connection or relationship with Trump in the way I may have experienced a playground bully. He is very removed from direct experience.

Europe now need so put up - or shut up.
Either escalate this war and go for it or let Trump find a way for peace.

27 EU members + us. None of us have got much in the way of defence have we? And European leaders just keep having meetings …. they can’t agree amongst themselves at the best of times so I don’t have much faith in them finding a solution. Macron is doing dirty deals with southern Europe blocking aid to Zelensky - the aid he told Trump would be happening. Well not according to apparatchiks in Brussels it isn’t.

It was indeed a set-up PN, an ambush designed to humiliate.

I tend to agree, GG13, but it did just occur to me that this is their clumsy and rude, but poosibly effective, way of getting Europe to install better defence systems in their own countries instead of lazily depending on the US. Trump has, after all, always made it clear that he thinks European countries should bump up their defence capabilities.

All information on the character of a politician is through the prism of social media

Do you never read newspapers or online articles by experts or listen to the news ronib, where facts are available other than through the prism of social media?

I have just seen this squabble

POTUS along with his VP have shown their true colours to the worlds media.

They are not statesmen, they are playground bullies, not interested in negotiating, they have to be top dogs regardless of who they trample over to get there.

ronib

PoliticsNerd but you have to remember that all information on the character of a politician is through the prism of social media. We don’t know Trump. We will never be anywhere him. He is not the class bully in that sense.

Trump has enormous political power. I don’t think that he overstepped his role when suggesting Zelensky work out a peace agreement and not another ten years of war.

Some of us do more research than others, that is true.

"I don’t think that he overstepped his role when suggesting Zelensky work out a peace agreement and not another ten years of war."

He didn't. But why do it in what was supposed to be a quick 'meet the press and outline (vaguely) the goals the wish to meet in the actual private discussion' they have with any visiting head of State. Why have his henchmen their? Why not take control when those henchmen chose to throw it into disarray. Why have the Russian Press there but exclude others?

This was a set-up worthy of an old-time American gangster - not a man who professes to be the leader of the free world.

Kandinsky

What do Ukrainians think of Zelensky?
I must admit I haven’t followed this war that closely ( or hardly at all tbh )
I know he was seen as a hero when it all started but not too sure now. According to some things I’ve read online he’s not a ‘hero’ to everyone in Ukraine.
And how much money has America given him? They can’t keep throwing money at him.
I don’t know why America always gives money to Europes problems - what has Europe got to do with him?
Let the UK, France & Germany pay the bill.

Although America did help us with a massive loan after WW2. I don’t know what we would have done without their help back then.

My last was a response to this. The thread moves fast.

The US has been ‘involved’ with Europe ever since WW1, when it dropped its isolationist stance and joined the war in its later stages to ensure victory for the allies. It didn’t want to be involved in WW2 until Pearl Harbour was bombed but once it was involved it was a good ally.

The US had an interest in settling the European economies post WW2 as in their eyes Europe was a barrier to the expansion of communism (which the US hated and a useful place to station troops and arms as a forward defence against communist incursion. This was well before the development of long range ballistic missies.
Basically, Europe was a US military base.

Supporting Europe financially in rebuilding post WW2 also had a secondary benefit of building a matket for US goods and technology

No doubt others can add to this..

" He should have worn a suit" The world teeters on the edge but if only he'd worn a suit.

To be honest I’m torn this morning. There are no saints that I can see. Ukraine is a corrupt country. Russia too. I wish we could just let them slog it out between themselves but that’s not a possibility.

Trump blames the EU for sweet talking Zelensky (for minerals that’s what they’re ALL squabbling over at the end of the day) by offering NATO membership when the Ukraine (probably ought) to have remained a buffer zone.

Now Russia has taken 20% of Ukraine. It gets messy thinking about this because some Ukrainians side with Russia so it’s complicated.

I think Zelensky wants to continue fighting but Trump’s saying “not on our dime”.

3 years has passed. Europe wasn’t negotiating peace talks until Trump forced their hand. Now Europe is scrambling to get its own defence strategy together. It’s one unholy mess isn’t it?

Whataboutery PoliticsNerd