NHS England changed

I agree twinnytwin. The ‘rich’ already pay for private treatment. I assume David isn’t suggesting charging them for emergency treatment in A&E which only NHS hospitals offer.

Just a quick comment - about means testing. Most wealthy (and not so wealthy) folk are already paying for their healthcare via the private sector. Many can't wait years for hip replacements, mental health therapy etc etc. I know many (including myself) who've paid for treatment due to long waiting times.

Casdon

David49

ronib

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

Has become a great behemoth!.

It stays for now, but how long.

For at least the duration of this government and the next. Minimum of 10 years, but if this government manage to turn it round as they are beginning to do, longer. There’s no national appetite for abolishing the NHS, even amongst Tory voters.

Agreed, it will stay for that period
One way that NHS could be restricted is by Means Testing - if you’re rich you pay. However I would expect the current parliament to pass it

That’s not going to be popular , but neither was WFA or NHI insurance

Casdon that is partly my point. The NHS is such a behemoth (good word of somebody’s) that there is never time to see what is working and what isn’t and build on one and dial back the other.
I want this to work as much as everyone else.

Whichever model we look at in other EU countries, they are still behemoths of different kinds!

France:

In France, the Ministry of Social Affairs and Health (Ministère des Affaires Sociales et de la Santé), along with regional health agencies (ARS), oversees the healthcare system, including public health, healthcare planning, and financing.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
National Level:
The Ministry of Social Affairs and Health, headed by the Minister of Health, sets national health policy and allocates budgets to regional health agencies.
The Ministry is responsible for regulating public healthcare facilities and managing the health insurance sector of the French Social Security system.
The Ministry is also responsible for setting the prices of specific medical procedures and drugs.
Regional Level:
Regional Health Agencies (ARS) are responsible for coordinating population health and healthcare, prevention and care delivery, public health, and social care within their regions.
These agencies are morally and financially autonomous public institutions under the supervision of the central Ministry of Social Affairs and Health.
Other Key Players:
Santé publique France: Plays a role in developing health policies for young people, carrying out statistical and qualitative studies and surveys on health.
Caisse Nationale de l'Assurance Maladie (CNAM): Heads the French health insurance system, defining guidelines, implementing agreements between health insurance funds and health professionals, and developing health expenditure control.
High Council on Public Health (Haut Conseil de la santé publique - HCSP): Issues opinions and recommendations on health and well-being, and can be consulted by ministers and parliamentary committees.
Haute Autorité de Santé (HAS): An independent body that provides recommendations and advice on healthcare practices and policies.

Germany......(similar number of complex inter-relational bodies and divisions of responsibility between federal and state) overseen by Health Ministry)

David49

ronib

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

Has become a great behemoth!.

It stays for now, but how long.

For at least the duration of this government and the next. Minimum of 10 years, but if this government manage to turn it round as they are beginning to do, longer. There’s no national appetite for abolishing the NHS, even amongst Tory voters.

ronib

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

Has become a great behemoth!.

It stays for now, but how long.

Yesterdays headlines have a lot to answer for, todays are mostly clearer its "change" but the Telegraph still says NHS England "Scrapped" and the Times "abolished"

It was evident from radio phone ins yesterday that many people thought the NHS was being abolished.
Which is understandable I think.

Every reorganisation so far has seen the proliferation of more non medical staff, so this is a good turnabout to get rid of some of them and have more control. Will this be the DHSS?

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

winterwhite

I’m not so sure.
NHS England was created to move the health service from constant political reorganisation every time there’s a change of government. That was a laudable aim. But the NHS is so unwieldy that no secretary of state can resist the temptation to change things.
Too much centralisation and the whole thing gets snarled up.
Delegate to regions and the result is postcode lottery of services which is unpopular.
Also the vastness of the NHS makes it as slow to turn round as an ocean-going liner. I agree that most of the jobs will still be needed and there will be the stressful turmoil of people reapplying for their own jobs under different titles. No doubt some duplication will disappear but many of the despised ‘back office’ jobs are there to free the health professionals from doing their own admin.
I think it was obvious that Wes Streeting was going to do this - Matt Hancock tried - but he will be long gone before we know whether it’s really worked. And suppose we have a Tory government next whose health priority is not waiting lists but children’s services. There was a fair point behind NHS England.

I think you have to look at what benefit NHS England added to the management of the NHS in England. What is better than it was when Labour left government in 2010?

David49

Iam64

It’s nothing like taking a leaf out of trump’s plsybook. It’s exactly what we hoped for from Starmer’s government . Confident positive brave long term plans

It was a tongue in cheek comment, but if Starmer is going to do that to all the other Quangos it sounds good to me. OFWAT should be a prime target they have done a useless job of regulating water.

Step by step David, there are the huge benefit reforms on the way, and each area has its own structures and needs.

I’m not so sure.
NHS England was created to move the health service from constant political reorganisation every time there’s a change of government. That was a laudable aim. But the NHS is so unwieldy that no secretary of state can resist the temptation to change things.
Too much centralisation and the whole thing gets snarled up.
Delegate to regions and the result is postcode lottery of services which is unpopular.
Also the vastness of the NHS makes it as slow to turn round as an ocean-going liner. I agree that most of the jobs will still be needed and there will be the stressful turmoil of people reapplying for their own jobs under different titles. No doubt some duplication will disappear but many of the despised ‘back office’ jobs are there to free the health professionals from doing their own admin.
I think it was obvious that Wes Streeting was going to do this - Matt Hancock tried - but he will be long gone before we know whether it’s really worked. And suppose we have a Tory government next whose health priority is not waiting lists but children’s services. There was a fair point behind NHS England.

A small part of the governments information

As promised in the manifesto, the government’s immediate priority has been to get a grip on record waiting lists.

To put us on track to reducing waiting times for elective care, the 2024 Autumn Budget provided funding to support the NHS to deliver the first step of an extra 2 million NHS operations, scans, and appointments a year in England, equivalent to 40,000 additional appointments a week.

Our milestone for change is ambitious, requiring a significant reduction in waiting list times with challenging public finances. For this reason, investment alone is not the answer: we will only deliver our milestone by reforming elective care. Working with the NHS, our next steps will:

Transform how elective care is delivered, improving productivity, and the way in which patients receive care, including more direct and timely diagnostic test referrals and results, increasing the availability of testing in communities and neighbourhoods. The capital investment provided in Autumn Budget 2024 will fund new surgical hubs and diagnostic scanners to build capacity.
Transform patients’ experience of care, by embracing technology. Care will be centred around patients’ lives and choices, as opposed to being inflexible and outdated. We will transform the NHS app, giving users the information they need to navigate and take control over their care.
Transform the model of care to make it more sustainable. There will be an increased focus on prevention throughout a patient’s care journey, dealing with issues earlier when they are easier to treat or cure. Siloed models of care will be reformed to improve patient experience and outcomes.

Referral processes will be effective and informed, with GPs having easier access to specialist clinical advice, and the priority will be to provide the right care, in the right place, at the right time, which may not be in a hospital setting.

Do you not see these changes as the first stage in sorting the whole muddle out Ronib.

For years people have been saying there are too many managers, money being wasted, that no Government is brave enough to look at the NHS from the core out and start again.

This looks like the start of all of that happening and, until it is has been done, the whole system cannot be put right.

You seem to be expecting instant miracles.

I have long held the opinion that there is far too many managers in the NHS across all services.

Iam64

It’s nothing like taking a leaf out of trump’s plsybook. It’s exactly what we hoped for from Starmer’s government . Confident positive brave long term plans

It was a tongue in cheek comment, but if Starmer is going to do that to all the other Quangos it sounds good to me. OFWAT should be a prime target they have done a useless job of regulating water.

Yes Wyllow3 look at numbers of new hospitals and urgent repairs not happening. Where are the 6,800,000 patients going to be treated and by whom?

PoliticsNerd

Whitewavemark2

My neighbour works for NHS England. He started his NHS life as a mental health nurse, so presumably if his job goes he can find employment in mental health. I hope so, he has a young family - 2 dear little boys.

The NHS has significant staffing shortages especially when recruiting and retaining healthcare professionals, so hopefully he can be redeployed. It will be a tough time for many but I have some hope that this area will already have had some work done on it.

The shortages/vacancies in MH for people with his qualifications are huge!

You asked if there were signs and there they are. Heading in the right direction. After 14 years of grinding the service into the ground progress was never going to be instant.

ronib

I don’t quite get how an increase in population of 5 million people wouldn’t impact on waiting lists and waiting times in hospitals and difficulty seeing a gp. So the administration/government needed to factor that in. In fact, are there any signs that it has?

Are there any signs it hasn't?

Wasn’t the waiting list quoted at 7 million so not much fun for the other 6,800,000 approx is it?

ronib

I don’t quite get how an increase in population of 5 million people wouldn’t impact on waiting lists and waiting times in hospitals and difficulty seeing a gp. So the administration/government needed to factor that in. In fact, are there any signs that it has?

There have been an extra 2 million appointments appointments and waiting lists have been cut by 193,000 since July.

And even if it was, it would be the right thing to do.