BBC calling President Zelensky *Mr*Zelensky

It is a difficult issue - I would describe myself as a lefty feminist and have since 1970 odd - but there are ime many shades of agreements and disagreements.

It is a difficult issue for everyone I think. Thank you for explaining.

Oh sorry the gender issue, men in women's spaces, pretending men are women, etc etc.

Thank you Galaxy but still not sure what "this issue" is.

It has highlighted this issue frequently, as has The Spectator, and more importantly allowed women to talk about it. Many of the feminists who used to write for the guardian now would choose to wrote for The Times, the Spectator, etc. It has been an utter shock to us lefty feminists I can tell you, but we are where we are.

Galaxy

And again thank god the telegraph is there to highlight the madness. They have been much more a friend to women on this issue than the BBC.

How is the Daily Telegraph a friend to women? Genuine question.

And again thank god the telegraph is there to highlight the madness. They have been much more a friend to women on this issue than the BBC.

I do trust BBC news in general and read the news on the website every day.
One of the reasons I get irritated by the BBC is the way they try to bring perfectly good drama up to date as in the recent production of Towards Zero. (There is a thread on this)
They are on the whole very good at producing drama and have excelled in dramas such as War and Peace. To try to modernise stories such as those written by Agatha Christie just spoils it for me.

Thinking about it AGAA4 I'm thinking of the thousands of references made in whole of the press to Zelensky

.... and the probability that its happened more than once in various publications - (I saw one which used "Putin" alongside "President Zelensky") not sure if its an apology case or not? Certainly not a stick to beat the BBC specifically with when their general coverage on Ukraine and sympathy to Zelensky is so good.

I don't think an apology to Eddie Izzard was necessary at all. Just looked it up and only the DailyT making a fuss about it. A young presenter trying to "get it right" and managing to "get it wrong" I don't see the big deal.

There was no apology for calling President Zelensky Mr but the BBC very quickly demanded an apology for calling Izzard a man.
Eddie Izzard is a man and President Zelensky is not just known as Mr.

How anyone can see Trump as MAGA and not a risk to the world I can’t imagine

I hadn't spotted that one (Governor)

Another reason it's important to give President Zelensky his title is otherwise it plays into the President Trump handbook where he's referring to Prime Minister Trudeau as Governor Trudeau, a nod to his desire for the country of Canada to become the 51st state. It's no secret he wants President Zelensky ousted from office.

Silverbrook gave the reference on page 1

I’ve found it at 1:57 min

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00292d5/breakfast-15032025

doubt it will happen again. I suspect a microscopic examination of all news media on it would reveal similar issues?

Not according Zelensky his title was clearly wrong, but I wonder whether the length of his name, compared with Trump, had anything to do with it - a sort of sub-conscious attempt to get near to balancing the number of syllables. That might explain it, but it certainly doesn't excuse it.

Agreed, Wyllow. We all trip over words from time to time, and it's very easy to get things wrong (it must be worse when cameras are on, too). I think if it was a slip of the tongue it is entirely forgivable. If not, however (as in the case of the dentist and HV I referred to upthread) then it's not.

The reporting on Ukraine on the whole, by the BBC has been excellent, and consistent, it's often the main feature on I player. It's the only news source I have found that consistently reports events day after day and is up on the running news choice even when there is nothing new to report.

One example of failing to give Zelensky his proper title is a really regrettable omission amongst millions of words/thousands of reports and is hardly a sign of overall bad reporting on the Ukraine.

Izzard is something of an outlier, as he seems to be deliberately controversial. He claims not to care, yet insists on using women's loos when he is 'Suzy', and was very rude and threatening to teenage girls who happened to be in there on one visit. I think it was he who insisted on the Ladies being cleared for him on another occasion. Attention-seeking? He seems to opt into male and female acting roles to suit himself (and his bank balance), too.

I do take your point about there being several things to worry about in the world, though AGAA4. I'm in no way wanting to divert the thread from the disrespect of Volodymyr Zelensky, and I don't think there has been deliberate diversion onto 'gender' issues, but I do think that this can sometimes happen (less so on here than in the past, though), when campaigners try to normalise the idea that a woman is anyone who says so, and will sneak that messaging into anything they can.

Gender issues are important to women. I do worry about my daughters and granddaughters but I am also concerned about other dangers Russia being one of them.
I can be concerned about several issues and there are plenty to be concerned about these days.
I don't think Eddie Izzard has claimed that he has changed sex and it is those who make that claim that bother me the most.

Thank you Sallyforth.

I know what you mean, Galaxy, and agree - it's why I always pick up on it when people confuse sex and gender, as it is that sleight of hand that has allowed this to get as far as it has.

We really have to stop the 'kindness', as being kind is very far from the agenda of those pulling the strings, even when they have persuaded the footsoldiers that they are campaigning on behalf of 'the most vulnerable group in society'. Unfortunately this government has a poor track record when it comes to confusing sex and gender, but I have always felt that it is absolutely impossible that they don't understand - they do, but have felt hidebound by the way in which the media and their opponents will pick on anything they can to do them down, and they can only fight on so many fronts at a time. Now they are in power, however, we will see how they behave, which is always the important thing. Meanwhile, I will bore on and point out the truth when confronted with misunderstandings and/or lies.

doodledog I agree with everything you have posted about gender and sex.
. Men can never become women and I don't think the reporter who called Izzard a man should have had to apologise as he seems to yo-yo between being a man and claiming to be a woman and he said he's not bothered.
I'm much more worried about those who claim that they are women and want to use facilities such as changing rooms for women.
This is a fight than women and girls should never have had to deal with.
I know my 19 year old GD goes to the gym regularly. She would be worried if a trans woman came into the changing rooms while she was dressing. I think most women would be. They shouldn't have to deal with that situation.

Yes doodledog is very good at summarising the issues. For me it is not just the very serious implications for womens rights that doodle describes, it is also the utter undermining of truth, reality and the impact that has on our faith in institutions. It has led me to view the BBC with contempt, that isn't a good thing.

Doodledog that is the most significant explanation of all the real issues at stake as I see them too. Thank you.

I disagree, it is one of the reasons I no more trust the BBC, than I trust the conspiracy theorists. They will say anything. They have fallen so far so quickly, my guess is if you looked back say two years ago you would find me on here defending the BBC. Now I just view them with despair. I happened to hear PM the other day on the events in Syria, the reporting was dire. So yes I am sure their reporting on Ukraine was poor.

AGAA4 Eddie Izzard isn't going to change the world, much as he sees himself as a trailblazer; but the idea that 'gender' is the same as sex may well do just that - it would have done had Stonewall had its way.

In a world where sex (as opposed to 'gender') is optional, women have nowhere to call our own, no sex-adjusted categories in sport, no right to meet without male supervision, and no words to describe us as women and girls, so we can't even talk about female concerns as there is no vocabulary to do so.

Any research into sex-based societal differences, from pensions to employment to health are meaningless when figures for male and female participants can't be compared with any accuracy, so targeted initiatives stop.

Crime figures are similarly skewed - even definitions of crimes such as rape are impacted. Rape has always meant 'non-consensual penetration with a penis' (ie male sexual domination that could lead to pregnancy, STDs, etc) but we are now told that women (or more accurately 'men who say they are women') can commit rape, so there is a call for the definition to include penetration with an object. I won't stop to a discussion of which is worse, as that is absolutely not the point. The point is that when we even think about removing a massively significant crime from the 'books' in order to mollify those who don't see women's rights as remotely relevant, we should be asking ourselves why.

Personal dignity (eg dealing with periods) and safety when vulnerable, eg in changing rooms, hospital wards and public toilets, where women and girls might be ill or in a state of undress is lost when men can access all areas.

Women's categories in the Arts are pointless when (for example) a man can win the Women's Prize for Poetry or whatever, so a female perspective on life goes back to where it used to be in the days when women used male names to be taken seriously. It goes on and on and on.

This is not about discrimination, and it is not a triviality - it is much more serious, and however much we are told it is about 'being kind' we really need to protect our daughters and granddaughters from the insidious sidelining of women and girls. The tide has turned a bit, but we can't rest on our laurels.