Is Politics Devoid Of ANY Humanity?

Barleyfields

How wrong you are. I’m a Conservative voter. Not very observant are you?

What do you mean by ‘and when they come for [me]’?

Very strange comment Barleyfields

Not to be taken seriously.

mae13

Barleyfields

I doubt mae will respond MOnica. Her MO seems to be light blue touch paper with goady post, then retreat.

Barleyfields: a dyed in the wool Reeves/Starmer disciple!

What rubbish!

If you start a thread, mae13, might it be a good idea to read all the responses?

Allira

Doodledog

Neither party wants people capable of work to be supported by those who do work and have no choice but to pay taxes. It is unfair, it fuels resentment and means that cuts to things like WFA have to be made, and the pension age keeps creeping up.

If everyone worked who could do so, there would be more generous benefits for those who need them, and more to spend on pensions, the NHS and so on. We have an aging society and the number of 'economically inactive' is increasing across the age range. Those claiming sickness benefits has increased exponentially since Covid, which is not true of other countries.

From what I have seen of the proposed cuts, they seem fair, and designed to help people into work, rather than to punish the unemployed. I am concerned about the under-22 year olds who might lose out, but I do understand that the point is to cut down the number of people going straight from education onto benefits. I'm not sure what the best way to deal with that is. Care leavers and vulnerable young people need a lot more support, but IMO we need to move more towards benefits being contributions-based for those who are capable of work.

I do agree, btw, I just find it ironic.

But the main thing is to make the challenge. The failure to respond is an answer in itself.

How wrong you are. I’m a Conservative voter. Not very observant are you?

What do you mean by ‘and when they come for [me]’?

And when they come for you, Barleyfields?

Barleyfields

I doubt mae will respond MOnica. Her MO seems to be light blue touch paper with goady post, then retreat.

Barleyfields: a dyed in the wool Reeves/Starmer disciple!

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I clicked on your link MaizieD just now. I thought ‘I’ve got 20 minutes before I have to leave for school pick up”.

However I was dismayed to see it’s 250 pages long! Yikes.
Thank you anyway.

I’m sure it’s worthy …

You can easily scroll through to the suggestions.

It was daunting until I read a bit, worked out how to find the pertinent information. Or the information I felt was pertinent.

MaizieD

M0nica

mae13 How would you finance the huge growth in the cost of sickness benefits were nothing done?

Please do not roll out the tax the wealthy argument unless you can define what wealthy means and how much tax your suggestion would raise.

I have linked several times to this paper, MOnics, written by an expert, founder of the Tax Justice Campaign. He’s done the work, made the analyses and proposed many areas in which ‘wealth’ could be taxed. There has never been a sniff of a reaction, favourable or unfavourable, from anyone on this forum. Perhaps you’d like to do a critique?

Or is it more fun to demand that complete amateurs must come up with solutions that satisfy you?

I can't believe we won't have a tax on extreme wealth MaizieD. I think it's just a question of when.

mae13

The Government slashing into the disabled and the Opposition howling that it's "too little too late" and urging further restrictions?
Let's go the whole hog and throw open the doors of the old Victorian Workhouses, consign the female inmates to scrubbing floors and their male counterparts can make themselves useful breaking rocks......

God save us, but what has happened to make compassion redundant in this country?

It’s alarming to see such a mischaracterisation of the government’s intentions.

The recent announcements are a step toward more effective support for those in need, rather than a return to outdated systems of punishment and neglect. Compassion isn’t about throwing money indiscriminately; it’s about implementing solutions that help people regain independence and dignity.

Rather than retreating to the old ways of the workhouses, we should commend efforts that focus on empowerment and rehabilitation. We must embrace a future that prioritises practical assistance over nostalgia for failed approaches.

No.

Barleyfields

Didn’t you start a thread about people going into workhouses yesterday? Are you content for people capable of work to live on benefits?

Yes, if they are apable of working, but unable to get a job, I am thankful they can apply for and receive benefits.

To answer the OP, there often is humanity in politics but very little in bureaucracy.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I clicked on your link MaizieD just now. I thought ‘I’ve got 20 minutes before I have to leave for school pick up”.

However I was dismayed to see it’s 250 pages long! Yikes.
Thank you anyway.

I’m sure it’s worthy …

That was she short version, FGT.

But you don't have to read every single word. There's a summary of his proposals (with projected tax take to be gained) from P11, with detail of each one further into the report.

He says that they don't all have to be implemented at once. He's just identifying possible areas where taxation could be increased or implemented.

I do agree, btw, I just find it ironic.
What's ironic?

I clicked on your link MaizieD just now. I thought ‘I’ve got 20 minutes before I have to leave for school pick up”.

However I was dismayed to see it’s 250 pages long! Yikes.
Thank you anyway.

I’m sure it’s worthy …

I despair!

MaizieD

taxingwealth.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Taxing-Wealth-Report-2024-Shorter.pdf

So cross that I forgot to post the link…

Thank you for posting this link.

Doodledog

Neither party wants people capable of work to be supported by those who do work and have no choice but to pay taxes. It is unfair, it fuels resentment and means that cuts to things like WFA have to be made, and the pension age keeps creeping up.

If everyone worked who could do so, there would be more generous benefits for those who need them, and more to spend on pensions, the NHS and so on. We have an aging society and the number of 'economically inactive' is increasing across the age range. Those claiming sickness benefits has increased exponentially since Covid, which is not true of other countries.

From what I have seen of the proposed cuts, they seem fair, and designed to help people into work, rather than to punish the unemployed. I am concerned about the under-22 year olds who might lose out, but I do understand that the point is to cut down the number of people going straight from education onto benefits. I'm not sure what the best way to deal with that is. Care leavers and vulnerable young people need a lot more support, but IMO we need to move more towards benefits being contributions-based for those who are capable of work.

I do agree, btw, I just find it ironic.

Barleyfields

I doubt mae will respond MOnica. Her MO seems to be light blue touch paper with goady post, then retreat.

Indeed it does. Whilst she’s perfectly entitled to her beliefs, it’s so annoying when OPs never return to their own posts!

M0nica

MaizieD

taxingwealth.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Taxing-Wealth-Report-2024-Shorter.pdf

So cross that I forgot to post the link…

Thank you for this MaizieD I am delighted that you are the person who has at last provided a researched solution to this problem.

It is quite a read and will need some time to read and digest - and I am just about to go out.

That was the 'short' version, too, MOnica😆

I'd be pleased to hear what you think of it.

Doodledog

Neither party wants people capable of work to be supported by those who do work and have no choice but to pay taxes. It is unfair, it fuels resentment and means that cuts to things like WFA have to be made, and the pension age keeps creeping up.

If everyone worked who could do so, there would be more generous benefits for those who need them, and more to spend on pensions, the NHS and so on. We have an aging society and the number of 'economically inactive' is increasing across the age range. Those claiming sickness benefits has increased exponentially since Covid, which is not true of other countries.

From what I have seen of the proposed cuts, they seem fair, and designed to help people into work, rather than to punish the unemployed. I am concerned about the under-22 year olds who might lose out, but I do understand that the point is to cut down the number of people going straight from education onto benefits. I'm not sure what the best way to deal with that is. Care leavers and vulnerable young people need a lot more support, but IMO we need to move more towards benefits being contributions-based for those who are capable of work.

Yes, yes, yes!

keepingquiet

I'm not sure the government is slashing into the disabled. I think they are cutting back on those who claim benefits and could work- those with severe disabilities who cannot work won't be affected.

Yes, and I agree with this.

MaizieD

taxingwealth.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Taxing-Wealth-Report-2024-Shorter.pdf

So cross that I forgot to post the link…

Thank you for this MaizieD I am delighted that you are the person who has at last provided a researched solution to this problem.

It is quite a read and will need some time to read and digest - and I am just about to go out.

Thank you Wyllow

This is the actual Green Paper Silverbrooks has quoted from

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/pathways-to-work-reforming-benefits-and-support-to-get-britain-working-green-paper/pathways-to-work-reforming-benefits-and-support-to-get-britain-working-green-paper

This is the thread without the goady start

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1346497--The-Welfare-Benefit-changes

I was hoping we could discuss the changes and contents for those interested without a goady start but being straightforward ...

(It definitely is worth reading the whole of the Green Paper before commenting and comparing different government approaches as you have to look at not just the cash offered but aspects like training and support opportunities and how much is being put into them).