Europe pathetic freeloaders

nanna8

He’s a funny bugger,isn’t he?

No he isn’t.
Duplicitous, not particularly astute, self-seeking, misogynistic and blinkered- dangerous, definitely, but funny?
No.

Babs03

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

Well said!

we address our defence needs according to changed situations

Well, we had better speed up quick.

Babs03

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

Absolutely. It's playing the Trump game to count only the money spent in retrospect

The US has only paid out whatever, at any given point, for what it considers in their own interests

And for a long, long time, it's been Russia and then of late the Middle East. US policy was to go in there and get involved boots on the ground. Iraq. Afghanistan, after 9/11 showed that they were vulnerable after all. Huge payments to certain countries in the Middle East.

Times have changed. It's now decided that Russia is no longer the enemy, its sort of bessie friends.
Ukraine has changed a lot.

Biden was following traditional alliances: Trump has decided to change them, but he still is keeping footholds in Europe and the Middle East.

I strongly resent the idea that because their policy has changed, Europe including ourselves should be liable for some kind of "back payments" or that we should bow in gratitude.

Trump ideology tries to change the cultural landscape with his declarations: he's doing it internally in the USA: threaten, bribe, whatever: we remain tactful, we address our defence needs according to changed situations, but we have no reason to grovel to the "pathetic freeloaders" rhetoric.

nanna8

I have the sense he was talking about Europe excluding the UK. His knowledge is fairly limited and perhaps he thinks the UK is not in Europe. Just a thought. He probably thinks the UK is an offshore colony of the US together with Ireland.

As my Dad used to say ‘many a true word is spoken in jest’ 🤭

@Allira,
Exactly. To suppose otherwise us to suppose every US administration has been too stupid for their own good.
Until this recent shower I would say that is impossible.

Babs03

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

They don't do anything for nothing.
They look for the main chance if they think there's something in it for them.

Wyllow3

Trump claims (and it's remotely possible in the detail) he didn't know about the conversations. However, where does the buck stop?

Can you imagine it in the UK? Pressure to fire the equivalent of Hesketh would be immediate?

Trump claims (and it's remotely possible in the detail) he didn't know about the conversations. However, where does the buck stop?

If he didn't know then either he's more incompetent than we thought or they are deliberately excluding the POTUS which is sinister.

He’s a funny bugger,isn’t he?

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

nanna8

I have the sense he was talking about Europe excluding the UK. His knowledge is fairly limited and perhaps he thinks the UK is not in Europe. Just a thought. He probably thinks the UK is an offshore colony of the US together with Ireland.

I’m pretty sure the UK was included we have run down our defence budgets year by year just like most EU nations.

I have the sense he was talking about Europe excluding the UK. His knowledge is fairly limited and perhaps he thinks the UK is not in Europe. Just a thought. He probably thinks the UK is an offshore colony of the US together with Ireland.

It is disgusting that Trump and others are trying to discredit the journalist, Trump even publicly calling him a ‘sleaze bag’ and a ‘lowlife’, what a disgusting President he is. Now they know the narrative of it being the journalist’s fault won’t wash Waltz has finally accepted responsibility but is trying to suggest it was probably the fault of a junior member of staff, no ‘buck stops here any more’.

“Not a happy bunny at all at the thought of us being used/abused as their "floating aircraft carrier". Blimmin' cheek of it....”

Nobody was saying that in 1940 Churchill was begging them to come.

^ for 10 yrs plus we are going to rely on the US for military support. ^

Quite.
That is either conveniently forgotten, or a "well, Europe will have to go it alone".

Humph. Aint going to happen for a long time.

In fact, we are doing a bit of Ukraine, as in, we will go it alone. We dont need the US.

Well, we would then reap the consequences of that.

We need to be grateful for what the US has done, is doing, is paying for, and hopefully will keep doing.

I personally do not bite the hand that feeds me.
Or moan. Or worse, not even see what is happening.

No the US does not pay rent for German bases any more than it does in the UK. The US does pay for military infrastructure, often constructed by German companies, Germany provides much of the domestic infrastructure.

Although bases are secure military areas they are still national territory and can be asked to leave at any time, as happened in France some time ago

Barleyfields

And don’t forget that we have USAF bases here for which the US pays little or no rent.

Quite!!! Valid point. I remember in the 1980's the demonstrations to get shot of THEIR Cruise missiles from our shores (ie making us a target in retaliation).

Not a happy bunny at all at the thought of us being used/abused as their "floating aircraft carrier". Blimmin' cheek of it....

As for the leaked conversation - I've only been involved in politics at lower level way back for some time and I've seen just how many "accidental on purpose mistakes" are made by the British government and civil service. I used to think "Britain is an inefficient nation (I can say that because I am British)" until I realised that quite a lot of it is deliberate inefficiency - ie rather than "person concerned is a useless idiot genuinely being inefficient - why did they employ that idiot?".

Deliberate inefficiency is a way my country operates sometimes - so I'm quite prepared to believe America also does "deliberate inefficiency" when it suits them to....and I think this was a set-up basically ("Whoops that's one way to tell the Europeans - and the British as well - just what we really think of them").

"Whoops....sorree.....butterfingers....".

It’s turning the clock back to the 1930s where the threat from Hitler was obvious yet we did not rearm to face it, the US was very reluctant to get involved, until Pearl Harbour.

Now Europe needs to face the threat from Russia alone, gearing up our own defence industries and recruitment, that’s going to be very unpopular and costly. We do need to be very cautious handling Trump, it’s imperative that NATO holds together because when Ukraine is settled any weakness is an invitation for a Russian attack on the Baltic states.

The idea that Trump is an enemy is very misplaced, for 10 yrs plus we are going to rely on the US for military support. The UK bases used by US are to back up NATO not to benefit them, do they really pay to use bases in Germany that seems strange to me.

Barleyfields

The leak was unbelievable. What an unprofessional shower they are, what a way to conduct the business of government. Definitely not to be trusted with our intelligence imho.

Oh I so agree!

How much have we spent on Ukraine?
How much the US?

It spends 4% of it;s GDP on defence[as far as I know their GDP is vastly more than ours]
We spend 2.5% or thereabouts. On a smaller GDP.

Whatever I say on this subject, you would not agree with me anyway.
So I agree to differ with you.

fancythat

Babs03

fancythat, you mean the kind of free loaders who followed the US into various conflicts after 9/11, losing our own armed forces, a price that cannot be quantified.
And the kind of freeloaders who assisted the US in their recent bombing of the Houthis with our very own RAF.
I don’t call that freeloading.

If the US pay 90% of something, and Europe 10%, does that make Europe freeloaders?
I think it does.

Whichever way you look at it, we have so not paid our way.
And now thanks to Trump, it has been exposed just how weak we are.

Fancythat, on what does the US pay 90% and Europe 10%?
Can you be clear what are you referring to?

Who is paying the price for wars and conflicts mainly started by the US? We are, in Europe, as refugees arrive.

The US has chosen to join -or start conflicts and pay what they did because it was believed it served US interests, not out of the "goodness of their heart".

So they've changed their mind (or not, as they are heavily involved in Israel/Iran/Yemen)
Their choice.

The US current tactic is passive aggressive - or direct - deliberate and arrogant belittling of former allies in their endeavours.

Its trying to destroy Europe as it best serves their interests for a US/Russian axis.

Freeloading is yet another insult that makes no sense.
I'm surprised anyone in the UK is prepared to tolerate this!

I would suggest that in having military bases here rent-free the US are freeloaders. They can’t get away with that in the likes of Germany and Japan, where they have to pay hefty rents.

Babs03

fancythat, you mean the kind of free loaders who followed the US into various conflicts after 9/11, losing our own armed forces, a price that cannot be quantified.
And the kind of freeloaders who assisted the US in their recent bombing of the Houthis with our very own RAF.
I don’t call that freeloading.

If the US pay 90% of something, and Europe 10%, does that make Europe freeloaders?
I think it does.

Whichever way you look at it, we have so not paid our way.
And now thanks to Trump, it has been exposed just how weak we are.

But it is good to actually know how they regard us. They made that very clear.

And Scotland has their nuclear subs. I remember in the 1960's being worried because we were in the epicentre of a nuclear strike. Then relations improved. Now it's time to worry again.