Heavy handed police action at Quaker Meeting House.

Allira You are right to say, "Not what I thought Quakers were like at all"

Thanks Wyllow3
What I meant - and which I thought was obvious - was that I thought that Quakers are not like the group I linked to at all and that, therefore, the people in the meeting were probably not Quakers but that the room had been rented to what the Quakers thought was a group of earnest, peace-loving young women.

I hope that makes sense.

Wyllow3

Police body cams.

Sorry I don't understand this comment. Surely you accept there would be someone outside of the police who attended who had a means of photographing the damage caused to the doors? I just think the damage was probably minimal (which doesn't negate it is still damage) otherwise one of the groups that were meeting there would have taken photos and posted them. The Sun were supplied those bogus photos by one of the members of the protest group, why not provide genuine ones? Does it not cause you to even wonder? Could it be that minimal damage wouldn't quite fit with the portrayal of a massive violent invasion by police armed with tasers and smashing down doors?

I support free speech but ! outside an abortion clinic, may not
trouble some women but if just one is distressed ?

The possibly guilty of charges would speak truth ?

Police body cams.

I don't know the rights or wrongs of it all and I suspect nobody here does. What I will say there is a difference between 'broke open' and ' broke down or smashed down' the doors and the likely resultant damage. The only photographic evidence we've seen were those bogus ones in the Sun which clearly show a broken lock on a totally different style of door. Given that most of the population possess mobile phones and most of these phones have a camera function that is a bit of a surprise.

Not going to get into it further Annie

Probably for the best. We need to take care of own wellbeing.

Not going to get into it further Annie

I was just pointing out that proof is available.

atm Quakers are deciding whether to leave it or take action and I'm happy to leave it with them

You want it to. Be true but you don’t know if it’s true

Just a little word on "lying" and the breaking in report. I dont want to re open a massive philosophical discussion, but be practical

I have not claimed Quakers never lie, but as regards the Westminster meeting House incident what the Quaker report said was

"They broke open the front door without warning or ringing the bell first".

Had this been a lie, the police could and would have immediately refuted the accusation as they wear body cams which would have shown what actually happened.

In this case they could have simply produced evidence of ringing the door bell and being admitted properly.

Yes I accept that

As I said, people disagree. What more do you want? A lot of us disagree with the actions as appropriate.

I respect the posters who are Quakers but I cannot accept
no Quaker has lied and supporting an action is definitely approval of an action

I'm still at a loss to understand why it would be necessary for the group to post fake photos of the broken down doors when surely there would be genuine ones.

Nobody's attacking Quakers but it is naive in the extreme to assume that no Quaker would ever lie, they're people just like the people of every other faith, and we all know some of them lie. I am not saying it's lies in this story but I do suspect some exaggeration and omissions.

Wyllow3 Yes, one older Quaker took part on a road protest - I don't agree with what she did, but it was as I have said a matter in Quakers for individuals to make this kind of decision.
That's fair enough, but the Elders came out in support of her in press statements that I read. They obviously didn't disapprove of the disruption and awful heartache she helped cause to many others.

Well said Wyllow.. I am an occasional attender and sit with them on some of their silent Peace vigils.. they are rather wonderful and refreshing and make me feel like something can be achieved through the power of prayer and meditation..

PM’s house. Not LMS.

It was just shoes outside LMS house not the vests.

Allira

No-one is attacking Quakers.

Cariad what in earth are you on about?

Quakers are peaceful but, as I said earlier, possibly rather naïve and always look for the good in everyone.

They probably let their room to a group of what they thought were peaceful women, little knowing they were part of a much wider protest organisation planning to disrupt London on a daily basis.
As I said - this group are not peaceful Quakers.
If they joined the Quakers it was with ulterior motives.

Quite possible in terms of letting the room.

But you cant just "join" the Quakers like you do a political party. You can attend a meeting for worship.

The process of becoming a Quaker is like with many other Quaker processes, long and earnestly pondered by experienced long term Quakers. People like those quoted gleefully planning harm would never be able to join.

We're on the whole rather an earnest lot, and I think you are right there can sometimes be a certain naivety politically.

I don't trust the Sun at all. It's a shock horror scandal rag. I saw the pictures they claimed to be the Quaker door but did not give them credibility. You only have to look at a few Sun headlines to take anything with a pinch of salt.

In this one for example it accuses 4 in 10 police of being more interested in being "woke" than solving crimes
www.thesun.co.uk/news/34149868/cops-free-speech-crimes-police/

I see no reason not to trust the statement in the O/P about the break in and that there was no need to break in when there was a person on the door and the meetings inside were peaceful. They would not lie about the breaking in, end of. why would we want to make it up? Quakers are not anti police per se and indeed have a young community policeman attending a local meeting

Yes, the Sun found examples of a few extremists to say outrageous things and with any group you find some who just want to cause trouble and be martyrs.

I suspect, from my own student days, many young people are attracted to "right wrongs" and there are always the few who really want to attention seek who ruin it for everyone else.
It's not OK to say what they did, of course not. I don't know any Quaker that would speak like that, ever, after 40 years.

Allira You are right to say, "Not what I thought Quakers were like at all"

Yes, one older Quaker took part on a road protest - I don't agree with what she did, but it was as I have said a matter in Quakers for individuals to make this kind of decision.

We're much more inclined to peaceful candlelit vigils or standing with banners outside the local town hall, or organising interfaith meetings with other faiths to promote peaceful interaction, or for many the just the silent prayer and fellowship that meetings for worship consist of.

We don't have preachers or a leadership structure although people are chosen by mutual consent to take upon the duties or elders or pastoral care or clerical work. A few paid organisers. We were the first faith group to marry gay couples and so on.
Going back have been times when groups of Quakers have organised as in the Faslane protests against nuclear arms when were arrests for blocking the road, and of course arrests for conscientious objection to war.

Should I report your post as an attack Cariad?
It's an untruth anyway.

No-one is attacking Quakers.

Cariad what in earth are you on about?

Quakers are peaceful but, as I said earlier, possibly rather naïve and always look for the good in everyone.

They probably let their room to a group of what they thought were peaceful women, little knowing they were part of a much wider protest organisation planning to disrupt London on a daily basis.
As I said - this group are not peaceful Quakers.
If they joined the Quakers it was with ulterior motives.

What on earth have the Quakers ever done that some of you want to malign them., assume they tell lies and cover up dangerous meetings.

Allira

Nandalot
It seems that it was The Sun itself which first heard of their proposed protests and reported them.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/33389402/eco-yobs-plans-transport-misery-april/

Catriona Roberts, 22, a history student at Strathclyde University, told how much she enjoys road-blocking protests.

She crowed: “It feels so good to sit on a road and be like, ‘F* you, I am not moving’. It f***ing works.”

Peaceful Quakers?
Not what I thought Quakers were like at all.

Waiting for the quote from you in which it's stated that Catriona Roberts is a Quaker. That sentence is missing from this article.

It sounds like she's probably in the protest group concerned - but not a Quaker and you're just assuming that most unlikely fact in order to have another "attack".

Hmmmmmm....

Again, good grief

Nandalot
It seems that it was The Sun itself which first heard of their proposed protests and reported them.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/33389402/eco-yobs-plans-transport-misery-april/

Catriona Roberts, 22, a history student at Strathclyde University, told how much she enjoys road-blocking protests.

She crowed: “It feels so good to sit on a road and be like, ‘F* you, I am not moving’. It f***ing works.”

Peaceful Quakers?
Not what I thought Quakers were like at all.

Having had the privilege of a University education, Sam Holland then chose to deface the buildings where he had been educated in an earlier protest.

A Just Stop Oil activist who sprayed orange paint onto the exterior of Leeds University’s Great Hall last Thursday has been charged with criminal damage

thetab.com/2023/10/20/just-stop-oil-protestor-charged-with-criminal-damage-to-leeds-unis-great-hall